Normans_Ghost Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 The Golf rear callipers will fit as a direct replacement for the cast iron Sierra units. They are an alloy single piston calliper with a cast iron bracket same as Sierra unit. Advantage is lighter than original and, reputed to bleed easier and work better. End result should be a "solid" pedal feel. I have negotiated 25% discount from a VW dealer for the calliper, bracket and pads. Total price will be in the region of £235.00 for a pair. I NEED A VOLUNTEER TO BUY A SET AND I'LL FIT THEM SO WE CAN SEE HOW THEY PERFORM I'm fitting 2 pot AP racing units so I don't need these myself. The AP units are more than double this price with Pagid pads and need a block machining to fit. There's a picture of the VW unit on the web site link below. Follow SEVEN, REAR BRAKES (bottom of page) Anyone interested please email or ring 0870 735 0010 (business hours) Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Edited by - nverona on 27 Nov 2004 12:24:59 Edited by - nverona on 1 Dec 2004 15:53:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 They certainly look better, lots smaller so presumably lighter than the Sierra ones. If they give a bit less braking then that will be ideal as the Sierra ones just don't match the standard 2 pot herald fronts. If I wasn't running AP 2 pots then I'd certainly have tried them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 HI Norman, Could be v interested. Is it a straight unbolt and re-fit exercise? How about the handbrake cable fitment? What is the lead time? So many questions..... *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Surrey Joint AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Youre up early steve. 😬 Support the 7 Society...... Ehhh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Howe Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Norman, any views on the efficiency of the hand brake set up on the VW set up JH Deliveries by Saffron, the yellow 222bhp Sausage delivery machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Right, I did a good bit of measuring, scheming & photographing at the dyno event today and have come up with the following observations. I'll add the URL for the photos once I've got them uploaded. Weights (for one caliper) : Std. Sierra dry, with pads = 3200g Golf with pads = 2800g Norman's 2 pot AP with fixing bracket & pads = 1795g The Golf item is an alu caliper mounted to an iron caliper carrier. It has a 37mm piston compared to the Sierra 43mm. The Golf caliper bolts on to the De Dion ear in exactly the same manner, and with no fettling. It is an exact match for the bolt holes, and the two thick alu washers place the caliper carrier near enough central to the disk. The Golf caliper sweeps a greater diameter of disk than the Sierra - this will run almost exactly to the edge of a standard Caterham disk, but is a slight problem for me as I lathed my discs down by 4mm to match the sweep of the Sierra caliper. You'll see what I mean in one of the photos I took. Essentially though, for an unmolested rear disc this really is a simple bolt on replacement. The handbrake cable attachment is different, but I'm pretty sure this will be easy to remedy as the lever arm on the Golf caliper is of thinner steel than the Sierra caliper, and should be simple to bend into a hook for the Sierra cable end. The only caveats I have left are that I was unable to try it under a 13" rim (though I have no reason to believe that it won't, it's not that much bigger than the Sierra item), and that the small piston is going to make the rear brakes even stronger, which I believe ia the opposite of what we all need. To go significantly bigger on piston diameter though is going to make the caliper rather large, and is pretty much the wrong way to go about frobbing the brake balance. Probably time to consider a rear pressure limiting valve if this issue concerns you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 John, How are you and the family? The handbrake internal mechanism on the VW unit seems better than the Sierra. However, it will need a pin making (no problem to do) when fitted to try the handbrake. Harry, Not sure, this one took about 10 days due to VW being out of stock. I guess that under normal conditions they can be supplied in 3 days. If someone wants to have them fitted and is not far from me, I'll get a second calliper and bracket, fit them and then we'll know all the answers. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 Luke, email the pictures and I'll put them on my web site for all to view. Send them to norman@dmservices.co.uk Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 S'ok Norman, I've done it now. Pics here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Luke/Norman, Do you know the part nos for the caliper, bracket and pads? *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Surrey Joint AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Luke, When I assembled it on my car, I'm pretty sure the pad did not protrude above the disc. I can't swear to it, but I'm sure I would have noticed. Harry. housing 1J0615424 caliper 6Q0615426A pads tba I've got to sort the price out as the retail prices are lower than first quoted but the bottom line is the same, discount reduced to fit. They may be cheaper than first thought. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 If no one wants these fitted, I'll have to send the bits back. At the moment I've paid £116 for the bits which are no good to me as I've got AP units going on. I only got the parts from a customer because there where lots of people showing interest. I'd rather be the 10% handling out of pocket than the whole £116.38. Sorry to be a bit blunt and I'm sure you'll understand that I wouldn't expect anyone to commit to purchase untill they've been fitted to a car with 13" wheels, get the handbrake fixing sorted and we see if there's any advantage other than saving .8 kg. I'll be sending them back on Wednesday if no one wants them. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Norman, sorry mate, your original post did look a bit like a bulk buy offer, not your ACTUAL calipers for sale. Finances bar me from taking yours off your hands at present but I almost certainly will do this in the New Year. Many thanks for the leg-work - owe you a pint *thumbup* *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Surrey Joint AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Harry, Sorry, I did say I could get the bits from a customer at 25% discount and that came out as £116. I asked them to get me 1 side so I could see if they would fit. By that I mean actually bolt on and the pipes and cables fit. It would appear they do, straight out of the box. I now need a to fit them to a standard car with 13" wheels and see: 1) what I need to make to get the handbrake cable to fit without bending or cutting. A clivis pin should do. 2) if it bleeds properly. 3) What the pedal feels like when installed. 4) if the rears lock before the fronts. If it passes these tests then, in my opinion, it becomes a worthwhile mod. I will happily make whatever is needed to get a straight fit for the HB cable when people want to fit these calipers. In other words, if someone will pop up here on a Saturday or Sunday and be prepared to have the whole lot fitted then everyone benifits. I will gladly get the other side so we can fit both. I'm not charging or making anything on this, just thought from the first post that members thought it worth finding out so thay could have a ready made kit to replace the Sierra units without spending £500 on AP units. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 But that I were a bit closer to you ☹️ You may have a bit of a problem getting any of the Surrey mob up there next weekend as it our Xmas do on Saturday and I very much doubt whether any of us will be capable, let alone legal to drive up to you on Sunday. There must be someone close-by that would volunteer a rear corner of his car for a day 🤔 *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Surrey Joint AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catflap Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Can not believe anyone is taking you up on this offer, I would be up like a shot (but its no good as I own a westfield) Come on someone Edited by - catflap on 29 Nov 2004 17:46:22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 29, 2004 Author Share Posted November 29, 2004 Steve, It doesn't have to be done next week. Over christmas is fine. I've got to order the other side or send these back by the end of the week. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 I`d gibve this a go but I`m spending too much as it is so maybe in the future when everyone else has done the donkey work 😬 Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 To echo CatFlap, someone must be able to pop into Norman's place with their Seven for an afternoon to see if this potential mod/upgrade will fly. If it does all hang together, I see it as a good halfway house between the boat anchor Sierra caliper and the AP twin-pot solution but at half the cost. COME ON SOMEONE..... I'm doing my best Norm 😬 *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Surrey Joint AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 Thanks Steve, ChrisB has said he'll have it done. But I think he's saying that because no else will, he didn't really want the mod in the first place. I may be wrong and if he insists I'll do it on his car as soon as I get the other bits. He's going to pop over tonight if he can. In the meantime I hope to hear about the pricing today. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Well done ChrisB , do keep us informed as to progress. Thanks again Norman. *thumbup* *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Surrey Joint AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ed Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Are you sure that having a smaller piston means the rear bias will be greater?? I know it means the piston would move out faster (except it should already be in contact with the disk). But by reducing the size, havent you effectively reduced the gearing hence for a certain pedal pressure, the pressure on the disk will be less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Ed - shhhhh... You're right, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The smaller the piston area the less the braking effort. Fitting the Golf calipers will reduce the rear braking effort. This may not be a bad thing if you are sticking with the standard front setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ed Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Good! What diameter are the caterham rear disks as shown in the photos above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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