zak Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 I know that some people have put their indicator bubls into the headlight dish with the admirable intention of removing/lowering the headlights. However, on these dark, damp evenings I got to thinking would it be possible to do this: 1. As above - put the indicators into the headlights (assuming orange bulbs used) 2. Put spotlight bulbs into the now redundant indicator assemblies (assuming clear lenses used) Anyone, any views / experience of this? Seems a good idea to me and I will be exploring it. I wanted more light so I stuck the Phillips fancy bulbs in and in the end the Osram Silver summat bulbs. But I still want MORE! 😬 before you start with "Get your eyes tested" their fine thanks! Hoping its a ' bright' 😳 idea.... 😬 😬 😬 Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Mmm, well... Have you had a good look at the standard indicator housings??? Not at all sure that you could find something to fit - and if you opened the hole up, the housing would become very weak. As an alternative, I know at least one person (Steve-B) who has put spots behind the radiator grille (that is on an SV, though). Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 Thanks for your response Myles, my thinking was to keep the same look of the car. Didnt want the "stuck on" rally look Was hoping ( most probably stoopidly) that it would be a simple bulb change and keep the same housing. An ideal world perhaps. Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 Well, the reflector in the indicator is really intended to throw light out in as wide an arc (horizontally and vertically) as possible - where as any sort of white-light driving/spot lights need to focus the beam pretty carefully. Not a hope-in-hell of just being a bulb-change. On the subject of indicators in the main light-housing, I was under the impression that this is mostly done to avoid the need for side-repeaters on the wings (i.e. the addition of the indicator is effectively to the exterior-side of the headlamp-bowls for side viewing). Wasn't aware anyone had put them inside the lens cavity for front viewing. Project Scope-Creep is underway... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted November 25, 2004 Author Share Posted November 25, 2004 thanks for coming back to me Myles, Shame about the simple bulb swap idea but no matter. Fred Mitchell put his indicators into the dish of the headlight ( If I recall correctly ) and the idea was that yes they were visible from the front. He told me it reflected massively and was good even when the lights were on. Like your Project Scope-Creep - boy do I know that one! 😬 Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalbloke.29 Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Also they'd melt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 Zak, look here for the spots I have installed in mine.. I dont' think it affects the look of the car too much. And with 2x 100W bulbs it certainly helps ALOT with night time blats. Again, this is an SV which has a good lot more space between the grill and rad to play with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Thanks Neil for the picture. Glad that the extra lights have the desired effect. Normalbloke - yeah, you're probably right. Just that you know those tiny spots on the new BMW mini could be useful.. waddya reckon? Gonna explore this a bit more. cheers all Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 MX5's often have tiny spots fitted in the grill area - I'd say they were a similar size to cat indicator pods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Ah ha! Now we are getting somewhere! perhaps 😬 Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normalbloke.29 Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 I guess any spot that has the ideal dimensions to fit would work.My reply was to my interpretation of you wanting to use the original indicator lenses. What about NVG instead.........Going to look dead cool, and you'd see the bunnies coming. Good luck on your quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarossa Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 These here are quite small dia, if a little long. Only seem to do them as fog lights though. Brews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted November 26, 2004 Share Posted November 26, 2004 I saw some of the german?? cars at the Festival had used the Hella type lamps in place of headlights, they had removed the origional 7" wind brakes and put a new bracket in place of the indicator pods to hold the spot lights looked quite neat and with minimum work could be used with headlights if you inset the indicator into the headlight bowl. Ref the insets into the headlight bowl - how well do they work when the headlights are on and do they pass MOT? Neil - are your spots the regulation distance above ground and from the wings etc? Paul M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted November 26, 2004 Author Share Posted November 26, 2004 Paul, you have your MOT inspector head on. Yup, the indicators in the headlights passed the MOT (but I am sure that depends upon interpretation...). I like the look of those lil hella foglights - that could be the answer! thanks guys Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted December 4, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted December 4, 2004 Zak, interesting thread. I too want more light...more when driving at night (all the time at this time of year) and something suitable for constant use that doesn't look like I'm trying to get everybody out of the way. Steve B's solution looks OK, I think round would be better than oblong. Like you I thought that fixing under the normal headlamps would be ideal, provided you could find an alternative indicator position. Post as to how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted December 28, 2004 Author Share Posted December 28, 2004 Little update on my progress. So far I think that I can drill either an alternative hole for the indicators inside the silvered dish on the headlight to put the indicators. (Orange bulb used). This then means that the Hella spotlights could use their mounting below the headlights. When I had got the indicators and headlights all apart I had this thought: "Why not instead of inserting the indicator bulb - put a spotlight bulb inside the headlight which could be wired very easily then into the main beam circuit??" The car would look exactly the same - no bolt on Rally/Max Power look, you have left the indicators well alone, and apart from alignment issues this would seem a good idea? Need to find a suitable spotlight bulb and more importantly a suitable holder for the bulb. Question: is the bulb position inside the headlight critical for the final beam result - or does the dish and lens focus/position the light beam? Thinking of using the sidelight hole below the H4 bulb and moving the sidelights round. Comments - suggestions please! 😬 Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubbster Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I think you'll find that the bulbs position within the headlamp unit is critical to beam pattern, so you can't just stick one in anywhere Roadsport build photo's here Le Mans 2004 photo's here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Yes it's critical. Look at the headlamp bulb, the dip and main beam filaments in the H4 blub are only a matter of mm apart and yet the way the light goes is totally different (OK there's a shield on the dip too but I'm trying to make a point here!) The relector and lens is at least as important on a spotlight as the blub if not more. Look at a non branded, town centre cruiser, max power, boy racer spot light from Halfords and a Cibie Turini spot light from a speciailist. They both take the same H3 bulb but one sends a huge blob of light (technical term...) miles in front, the other doesn't, a glow worm of light randomly scattered round the front of the car. The difference is the reflector, the alignment of the blub's filament in the focal point of the reflector and the lens. If you want a spotlight in the headlight's space then bin the headlight and replace it with a pukka spotlight then find an alternative way to meet the MOT need for a dip beam. If you're serious about more light then what about HID? These are the xenon discharge headlights as abused by BMW and Merc drivers, a much bluer looking light which is much brighter. Two problems on a Caterham: Firstly the headlights are H4 and there's as yet no good way to have HID dip and main in the place of a normal H4. There are a number of options but I'm not aware any of them work well, might be worth a chat to someone in the business. I'd talk to Nick at Autolamps-on-line. Secondly you need a ballast box connected to the HID burner (blub equivalent) by a thick cable that takes the 20kV generated in the ballast box to the burner. OK on a tin top where you just tyrap the ballast box to something convenient behind the headlight unit more difficult on a Cat as you'll need to put the ballast box under the bonnet and get the thick cable up to the headlight unit, might need a custom ballast box with a longer cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted December 28, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted December 28, 2004 Chelspeed is right filament / reflector alignment is crucial, as is reflector design. Go for a known product. I found reviews on the web of various spotlamps (one of the car mags' sites). The Hella website is great : I love the illustration of beam pattern (and will look at it again before making a final choice). I can not see a way to squeeze the modern style headlamp / lens spot combination on a decent adjustable sub-frame into a Caterham style headlamp housing (although that's what I want). I think that the spot-lamps behind the grill is the solution I will adopt - I am going to build a frame to support them in front of the radiator. Similar to the Neil Cavanagh or Steve Blair solution (but in an SIII rather than SV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Scholtz Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Here's an Idea http://www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk/profiles/images/wr1c_12.jpg Birkin S3 Ford Kent 1600 Weber 40's AND just in Maped Ignition. *WOW* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAUL MARRIOTT Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Zak I've got a couple of spare 72 headlamps if you're interested, The housings are corroded but the lenses etc are in good fettle. Paul M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 The little Hella spots are incredible. Our sister car runs them - here here I'm going to fit a set in some carbon indicator pods next week (should just require opening out the indicator pod a little), they're incredibly bright - so much so that in some cases the car runs them as high/low replacements... Graeme. ________________________________________________________ graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport graeme@fluke-motorsport.co.uk / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk Edited by - gee_fin on 29 Dec 2004 10:54:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted December 29, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted December 29, 2004 Thanks for the links: Michael: positioning yes, but I was thinking of a framework: as long as that arrangement allows enough cold air onto the rad: its great. Graeme: they look like the right size, but I must admit that that car looks like it's missing something: I have become very used to the appearance of the conventional headlamps: but the right spotlight as an extra - Oh yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Wow! those lil spots look just the job to me. 😬 Brilliant Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Graeme when you fit them will you let us know how you got on and post some pics please?? Thanks for the offer Paul, but I am thinking of putting my indicators into the headlights and these hella lamps in the indicator pods at the moment. Zak Updated site 16th Oct 04 - www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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