jmb123 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Thinking of uprating the front brakes and theres two choices. Caterhams or Alcons. Pro & Cons for both. Caterhams, 10" diameter, therefore heavier. Needs up graded master cylinder otherwise excessive pedal travel, Total cost around 695 + 157= 852. as opposed to 570 for alcons. caterhams replacment discs are 120 each as opposed to 15. Has anybody done comparison tests of both, what do people think are best? cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I've not compared the alcons to the caterham AP setup, but I have gone from the standard caterham small brakes/small master cylinder to the caterham big AP brakes but retaining the small master cylinder and I dont think the pedal travel is excessive. I'm sure many will disagree, but thats my view on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Bee Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I have the Caterham big brakes and did not see the real benefits until I fitted the uprated master cylinder. There was excessive pedal travel. Dave TRY 5S Buzzin' Bee It's never too late for a happy childhood *cool* You don't stop playing because you get old You get old because you stop playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I've fiited 4 pot Wilwood's to front and kept standard m/cyl. Pedal is exactly the same as before. Problem is rear callipres which are being dealt with soon. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Mem No 2166, the full story here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Big difference is vented discs on the AP set from Caterham. These will give better heat dissipation. Whether you need this depends on why you feel the need to upgrade. If you use the car on the road and the current brakes don't overheat but you just feel you'd like a bit more braking effort each time you use them then that says go for the Alcons with solid discs. If you use the car a lot on the track (or perhaps seriously hard on the road) and you have a habit of fading the standard brakes by overheating them then more braking will make the situation worse. In that case you will also want the extra heat rejection from vented discs so the AP set up is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 On the assumption that a major benefit of big brakes is the improved cooling/lack of fade is there a benefit over std brakes (particularly if fitted with Pagids) if just for road use? I've got limited budget for upgrades and would rather spend it on engine mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 There are two pedals. Normal vs. high ratio. With a high ratio pedal, the uprated master cylinder isn't necessary and leads to too heavy a pedal action unless you change to a high friction brake material like Pagid RS14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I use a standard pedal & M/C with the Alcon brakes. The standard discs (cheap to replace) are retained. James Whiting says the piston sizes have been carefully calculated so that the standard M/C can be retained. For me it works & I also like green stuff pads for the front & standard for the rear. On the road I have a firm pedal all the time. On track the pedal travel increases but the brake efficiency is still more than sufficient. Rick: If I were you & just using the car for road use I'd stick with the standard brakes. I've never used Pagid pads so can't comment but others who have used the Hawk metalic type pads say these give nearly as good improvement as fitting bigger brakes. Even if they do wear the discs out prematurely at £15 a throw they're cheaper than the pads. Edited by - Mick Day on 31 Oct 2004 09:59:39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Mick, Thanks, those are exactly the sort of words/advice I was hoping to hear - but I've never heard of 'Hawk metallic type pads'. Could you enlighten me further. Also toying with the idea of a high ratio pedal. Any idea of the cost (I'm being lazy 'cos I've a feeling it's in the archives somewhere). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 The pedal I think is about £20-30 if I remember correctly. Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Hawk brake pads here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp7 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Hi, What effect does the slightly larger Caterham disc have, if any, over the standard solid one, in terms of grabbing ability of the caliper. Am i right in thinking that the greater the diameter, the easier the brakes work? A bit like stopping a spinning bike wheel by grabbing it, easy at the edge, but impossible near the hub. cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Indeed Andy - that is why wheels grew for supercars - bigger alloys means bigger discs. When we were at Spa in the pitlane with us was a 360 Modena race car - its brake discs were the size of our alloys! HUGE UPDATE ALMOST WITH VIDEO here 70,000miles in 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp7 Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 So logically, you could argue that the Caterham set up is better than the alcons? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 To echo Chelspeed's post - For 90% of use, a solid disc is fine - but if you really pound the brakes, they get damned hot. I cracked a vented AP disc at Magny Cours after subjecting it to repeated braking from flat out for the two slow corners and suspect a solid disc would have fared even less well. I could be talking complete crap but I feel happier with the ventilated AP setup for the sort of use subject my car too, but I've never even seen an Alcon setup. Edited by - Alex Wong on 1 Nov 2004 09:16:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I've never heard of any incidences of solid front disks cracking but I of know of a few vented discs that 've cracked. That's not to say there's anything wrong with vented discs but it would be nice to have more data on this. The Alcon calipers are very similar to the AP, take the same pad shape (I think), but have different piston sizes. Paul Harvey ran these calipers for the 24 hour Nurburgring race a few years back. Anybody remember how the discs fared? Edited by - Mick Day on 1 Nov 2004 11:56:03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Picture of a cracked AP disc from Marks car here HUGE UPDATE ALMOST WITH VIDEO here 70,000miles in 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I have the AP calipers and standard master cylinder and have no problem with pedal travel. However, being a live axle with drums means that I do not have the rear calipers that cause the pedal travel. Low tech luddite - xflow and proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Angus, Looks just like mine did - what pads was he using Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Thanks Angus: it's where one would expect the cracks to start, in between the webbs. Another Vx 2.0l. I've seen similar cracks on another Vx (250 BHP) & a Zetec (215 BHP) both using Green Stuff pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Not sure Alex - I'll check but I think Mintex 11xx as opposed to pagid or greenstuff. I remember seeing your cracked disc when we dropped into Le Sept last year. HUGE UPDATE ALMOST WITH VIDEO here 70,000miles in 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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