Joachim Westermann Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 @Swiss Tony Are you from the same brand as the other specialist? Why you say that we lie? He? Why you go in Internet if you can not read or you need glasses and do not use them? Where I claim that our products are pure carbon? EFA, Aves and you are from blind club. So slowly it is enough. Which parts you see? Who is the owner? Our parts we delivered from end of 2003 where all perfect. The parts Hans produced before where also not bad and that time half price of our competition. In that time Hans produced that parts in his free time and we said that to everybody. Also I wrote that here in Blatchat at that time where Arnie rip off his club comrades with overpriced wings. After that we deliver (because Arnie put ideas into Blatchat readers head) some inside kevlar layered. Good for nothing. We learn. @ Chris K Please what is DSS office? @ AVES Also for you! Please open also your eyes or visit an optician of your trust! Do you need for your driving pure carbon? Or will you only see carbon? Can you feel the difference of 500 grams? We name our products “carbon” because our customer will see carbon and they see pure carbon. We do not with'hold that the most of our products are improved by special fibre glass. Wait for the result from Paul. And wait of my website update when we show why we (Hans) can speak from that stuff! And then ask you the question where Mr. Donutter knows all these wisdoms? We for our part wait for the result of the test in Italy. A test for nothing by maybe the world leading man in composite design! Also we can learn every day! And that is our big chance in worldwide trading! @ Angus I can not translate all in your post – to difficult for me. And babbelfish brings always rubbish. We like to see the high tech world of professional racing. That’s good looking carbon. In German DTM they use expensive parts only for show. Everybody know that they use carbon for everything only because the have plenty of money. I can understand that. That is the reason why I find Richard of France insider panels so much crazy that I find it again very good. I am sure if I only use my MOG Baby just for fun and not for fighting I also fit Richards parts. They are cool! In racing -> nobody need them. But I accept loony’s like Marius who always fit the best on his car. (Maybe I also do that) OK weight saving – I save in 3 Month 13 kg…….. and only if I learn much exactly driving I find further 15 kg! Our “carbon parts” we produce are for good looking and serve its purpose (I am happy not longer using the ugly Caterham side screens where all time make trouble in my racing……) But we can at the moment with our equipment and experience not produce wishbones or for example gearbox parts………. Hans build body work parts. Our seats are crash approved. We plan end of the year………… not all here ;) @SteveA7 Yes it is entertaining. I sit this night until 3 until my desk. Its the most natural thing in the world that I loose many hours for translating everything. OK, now I work again on our experience site. (Somedody can help me please? I am looking for texture samples in the net like that) sample or sample or sample @ Pierre Gillet It will be nice if that is my car but it is a customer car. But Thank you for the compliment. ( I wonder why nobody ask about the carbon behind the exhaust.) It was the first LHD R 400 in the world who Caterham build. So we had enough trouble at first 🙆🏻 No, the R 400 is also in Germany not road legal as standard but there are legal but very strenuous ways that they will be road legal. Maybe the way goes over Brussel. It is discriminating for us as European citizens that in UK these cares are legal and note here. Regards Joachim mog-racing.com Edited by - Joachim on 28 Sep 2004 15:57:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Aves - you're not a lawyer friend of EFA's by any chance are you? Angus - I only looked briefly into your brown stuff products but they look ****. hot to me. You're a cheeky monkey! But glad to see you're still enjoying the 7 scene and hope Tessa's well and beating you on the circuit by now :) At the end of the day, most people, on here, buying carbon products don't need them. For strength (because the body bits on a 7 add feck all here - I know, I've broken three genuiiiiiine cf noses on twigs). For weight (because the 7 weighs feck all anyway and most of us are fat - except Jan, who's a twig) Or for aesthetics (because the 7 is an ugly wee fecker). We buy them because they gives us (a) bragging rights down the pub or (b) because they're something to upset the other half with, rather than buying shoes or makeup (for them, or yourself - but that would likely upset her more. If it doesn't, pass her my address). If your arguments with the better half are to have any credence, you have to be able to prove the technical superiority of your product. Similarly, if you are to have any hope of coming out tops down the pub, and/or proving to Peter Carmichael (sorry PC for dragging you into this) that you are right, you need to be able to demonstrate that your nose is indeed stronger and lighter. People like PC (or 7 addicts down the pub in general) don't care about aesthetics as most people who have met him (them/us) will realise. Just technical savvy. And he's a god amongst men for just this reason. So come on Arnie, stop being evasive. No one cares if the "carbon" is 1% carbon, 100% carbon or 50% dog poo. If it's stronger and lighter, and (for the ladies) looks better, it's a done deal. Get your nose out for the lads and get it tested with the Carbon Baron's finest and let's have an end to all this "handbags at dawn" rubbish. PS Other halves never take you seriously if you say it was the cheapest available. They suspect you spent the saving on a hairy lipped Russian lap dancer called Eva and are keeping secrets from them. so this barely registers in any "scientific" equation. PPS If either of you (or RiF if he can see through the tears of laughter) fancy making sill protectors for a 355, or engine bay shields, or gear knobs at a sensible price, drop me a mail. Aesthetics and price are key here, as it's a fat old bird and there are huge swathes of metal to protect the unfortunate/careless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 How does the Reverie carbon measure up then ? I am wincing over the cost of their airboxes in the DT catalogue as I type The birth of the Gixxerham : pics here drivel here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 @ Scuffnut , @ all Because you ask about sill protectors for your 355 I surf on the Porsche website. Hans produced the sill protectors for the Boxsters and 996 and I will show you these pictures. They are produced with 1 layer carbon and 2 layers black glass. Later a 996 or Boxster Sticker comes on this parts and then a lot of clear varnish brings the brilliance and furface. Because of the big numbers they produced they had a press mould. Everybody can surf on Porsches Car Configuration. I can not see an other description for all the carbon interiors as the word “carbon”. I think “carbon” is in everyday usage also OK if it is not pure carbon. We for us know about our responsibility and write to our website that we use also glass in our parts. I think if nobody bring new arguments we wait for the test result and stop here this split hairs! Oh, @Scuffnut We can produce your sill protectors very good and cheap. But they are in the same ratio expensiver as a Ferrari to a Caterham But I need your 355 for minimum of 4 weeks in Summer. 1 week to take the form and produce the parts and 3 weeks for testing our part in your car on Nordschleife 😬 Regards Joachim mog-racing.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 I think SwissTony meant "lie" in terms of being situated somewhere in between, not "to lie" to somebody else. Joachims english is fan-bloody-tastic today compared to three years back so please be patient with him... Got my chips & Coke beside the PC now, can we please get on now ? *DONG* Next round 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithj41 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Going to have to head home soon. I will have to catch up on the next round in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 "Also for you! Please open also your eyes or visit an optician of your trust! Do you need for your driving pure carbon? Or will you only see carbon? Can you feel the difference of 500 grams? We name our products “carbon” because our customer will see carbon and they see pure carbon. We do not with'hold that the most of our products are improved by special fibre glass." What did I say wrong? I didn't say that you did claim that your products were "pure Carbon". Nor did I comment on their quality *confused*. I was merely commenting that there is a big diffence between a "technical" evaluation/comparison & a "consumer" evaluation - which seems a fairly abstract concept to me anyway. I don't profess to know anything technical about carbon,but adopting Scuffnuts logic , & as you've chosen to have a pop at me when I was fairly impartial....................If I was to brag about carbon down the pub & had the choice of two similarly priced products to brag about, I'd chose the one that: A) Was "real" carbon B) Looked aesthetically more pleasing I saw one of your seats the other week aesthetically it wasn't a patch on the RIF stuff that I've bought or the DITP stuff that I've seen in the past. That's my opinion & I'm entitled to it. No big fall out, no handbags, no abuse, no sleep lost, just my own view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 @Aves Maybe I tranlated something wrong or I make a mistake. I have not the time now reading and translating every thing again. I am sorry about that and will excuse me for that. Which seat you see, who is the owner and from which year is it? Do you see our seats from 2004? What specific you do not like? Maybe we can correct that in future. You can see our 2004 quality at Freestyle and Fluke cars. Edited by - Joachim on 28 Sep 2004 17:45:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Edited by - EFA on 28 Sep 2004 22:43:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 That Forum kills my brain. When I write about quality before 2004 it means not that these parts are not strong or good. Our surface and fibre course would be a better because much better production conditions are now much better than earlier! Regards Joachim mog-racing.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Joachim, Really - life is too short for all this. There are far more important things to worry about.There is no animosity between you & I - maybe just a bit of gentle jesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Westermann Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 @Arnie I saw pictures of the autoclave and rest who are published in those days on “the webbs” DIPT. If this rundown place produces parts for British Formula 1 teams then I do not wonder why so much British F1 experts work in Maranello and why Maranello break one record after the other. I am pretty sure in Maranello nobody miss your technology. If I am wrong I excuse me for all and you are my new hero. But if your Formula 1 and Triumph, Harley, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Lotus, TVR and Noble Customers knows what rubbish you bring here and how much time you waste….. Why goes Activa with their magic resin system bankruptcy? Regards from Joachim Fan of Williams F1, Mansell, Hill and Montoya PS I forgot Mika Häkkinen and the cool Ice Man! Edited by - Joachim on 28 Sep 2004 18:18:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Tony Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 The man had a go at me ☹️& then seems to agree with me . I said his product was somewhere between "Carbon Look" & "Real" Carbon & now he seems to say the same thing *confused* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Edited by - EFA on 28 Sep 2004 22:43:21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss Tony Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 & the general tone is that EFA is denigrating J's product in order to promote his "while Joachim leaves it to his satisfied customers". Hmmmmm !!!!!!! "But if your Formula 1 and Triumph, Harley, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Audi, Lotus, TVR and Noble Customers knows what rubbish you bring here ...........Why goes Activa with their magic resin system bankruptcy" Not exactly a balanced impartial & inoffensive view ❗ " I find EFA attitude childish and he comes across as being very jealous of MOG's success. His only sales pitch seems to be to criticise everyone else's products but never even mentions his own" Frankly - Cobblers. It's going both ways. If he did plug his own you'd be slagging him off for commercial advertising. It's not childish then to suggest that someone elses product is so cr@p that their company should become insolvent? "and seems to be relatively new to Carbon manufacture, yet he speaks as if he invented the stuff!!" You've obviously never heard of Carbon Component Company then? - which, as I remember, pratically did invent quality Carbon parts for caterhams. There are different arguments here. J says he produces a part generally referred to as "Carbon" although it uses principally a glass manufacturing process.(forgive me & tell me if I'm wrong) He says that this is what plenty of people want- "Carbon" at a lowish price. He's right. No doubt about that. I don't think he can realistically query the quality of EFA's product (although he tries to with no real substance). I've never seen ANY criticism of EFA's quality. In fact TSK say it's the best carbon they paint. EFA says that he will make REAL carbon, that looks good, is strong & light with good UV resistence at the same sort of prices as J. What he is effectively saying is "Who's the mug? - Buy kind of carbon, but kind of glass fibre too from J, or buy the real thing from Activa at a similar price". I can't seem that J actually argues with that premise????? OK, EFA's appproch is a tadd abrasive but I can see where his coming from. If the prices are similar surely the average punter would rather have a lighter, stronger,more durable item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Shut up guys 😳 Offer your products and the market will decide...we're not as easily fooled as you seem to think Klaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 5-10k per month - unless you are selling to Caterham then I cant see how you will generate this sort of income in such a small market place? LeMans 2004 pics here Seven related chat here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Shot Sales Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I have been in sales and marketing all my working life and have been, and still am extremely successful and now at the pinnacle of my career. I know absolutely nothing about, composites, carbon fibre or the other products you have been discussing. What I do know is that the attitude and temperament EFA has shown/adopted will ensure has he will NEVER EVER succeed in marketing his products to the true professionals within his proposed target market. In layman’s terms that EFA ‘may’ understand I offer this (free and without prejudice) advice, shut up whilst you still have a remote chance of making you new venture successful, or risk loosing your not insignificant initial investment. Anonymous maybe, but someone who actually gives a dam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Arnie: I, and I am sure a lot of other people here, wish you the best of luck with your new venture. It will not be easy, since the demise of Arrows and Reynard, there has been a significant overcapacity in small scale composites production. The uncertain future of Jordan and Jaguar can only make things worse. All that I can say is good luck! I am sure that many other members of the forum willl support me if I ask you not to promote your product by putting down other people's products. If I smell bullsh1t, I will let the forum know. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Well my highly tuned nose is reeking from the smell of bullsh1t. The resin systems Activa have used were specially developed for Activa Technology a few years ago and as such I do not wish them to go to Ferraris or anyone elses lab. So what's Mr. EFActiva going to do? Screen every customer to make sure they don't have links to Ferrari? Get every customer to sign a non-disclosure agreement? Fit GPS units in all carbon parts so he can track them around the world. If the resin systems were that good then Ferrari et al would either have bought the components already or would have bought Activa's IP rights to the resin system when it went under the last time. Given that F1 teams have been using advanced resin systems like PEEK for some time now, I suspect that the 'special' resin systems are a bit like Colonel Saunders' special ingredients... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I was giving the guy a break! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Edited by - EFA on 28 Sep 2004 22:42:37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Erm, so why are you so desperate to avoid it getting into the hands of F1 teams that, having said you'd welcome any testing by a composites expert, you then turn down the chance to do exactly that? A technical evaluation which could expose the unique properties of the resin system we use is not something I am prepared to get involved in for reason of wishing to protect the companies intellectual property. Or do you think that the Ferrari F1 team want to start knocking out carbon parts purely for their pimpiness value? I know there are different types of prepreg - that's why I use SPS SE84V/RC200P or 200T depending on the application. A good cosmetic finish requires nothing more than a resin-rich prepreg laminate, low perforation release film inside the vacuum stack and a high quality mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Edited by - EFA on 28 Sep 2004 22:42:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 All in I'd say it's yet another very very poor show. I read it as Joachim answering a reasonable question from robbieclark then getting a slating from EFA about other issues. Where was the need for that? As a regular club member and infrequent forum user I can honestly say this doesn't impress me much. Steve See My Caterham Fireblade Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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