andytommo Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Im experiencing some pronounced jerkiness from the drive train! It feels unpleasant, unsmooth and is upsetiing me and the Mrs. When you go from accelerating to braking (even gently) or are in stop start traffic it is very evident- clunking and shunting away- it sounds like someone banging a bit of iron with a hammer! Its an ex race 1800k with De deon but no LSD i think. I jacked it up yesterday and turned the wheels back and forth and i think i was replicating the noise by doing so. Could it be the differential? Do they get worn out? (ive done 40,000 miles) Do i have to order a new one or is it a good excuse to get a LSD? Your help muchly apreciated Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shn7 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Andy, Could be the diff but also check: Diff mounts - these can break where they are welded to the chassis; A frame bush could be worn out though I think this is more likely to show up when cornering. Diff can be re-built by the likes of Road & Race Transmissions (NCJASC) and others. HTH. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Bill Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Check out your bushes! 😳 No, really! BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_F Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 My SV140 has made those sort of noises from new, despite a number of diff replacements under warranty. The worst bit is the metallic growling on a light or trailing throttle. I have been given the "they all do that, sir" line, but am still not happy. Any suggestions for differential rebuilders in the Midlands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 The crown wheel meshing on the diff can give these sorts of noises. Very unlikely you have worn out the diff as it is one of the most overspecified components on the car. You may or may not have an AP Suretrak diff. Easiest way to tell is to attempt a tyre blazing start and count the number of black rubber stripes. Alternatively attempt donuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix E Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Ron, you are not alone, I've got the same car, same age and the very same annoying problem. On a positive note, it does encourage me to drive smoothly. Best Regards, Felix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David M Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 04 plated 1.8 roadsport and the clunking is something I now live with, but as felix sais it makes you drive smoother..... I am also getting more of the growling on freewheeling... Its just one of those things..... unless you go for a rebuild.... but remember its only sitting inches away from your 🙆🏻 tiy are going to here something.... David GF04RCE is built running and on the road.... every day is a Caterham day!!!! He heee!!... pictures here , I am as excited as an excited thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Mine growls like right bugger on a trailing throttle, I just live with it. It never used to do it, just gradually got worse and worse, this is on a 97 car. Edited by - julians on 31 Aug 2004 17:19:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytommo Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 Thank you lovely people, Great to hear from you pete ill check the mounts and bushes-i thought it was held in with 2 bloody great long bolts which look fine. its like felix says, youve got to drive smoothly and feather the throttle or you are shaken back and forth like one of those tummy trimming machines from the 1950's. Sitting under the car looking up= It feels like there is a lot of free play when turning the wheels by hand, and when that is eventually taken up by the drive shaft-eg lots of slack there. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I've just fitted a new Seq gearbox, new prop, Phil at R&R has rebuilt the diff and the clonking is louder than ever!!.. it is just one of those things. You want to hear the clonk I get when changing from 1st to 2nd at low speeds... its like dropping a hammer in a iron drum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rust Red Seven Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Same problem and the diff mounts were identified as my problem. Got the spanner on them and got a 1/4 turn out of the top ones but the bottoms were tight. Went right through the drive train checking it out and it all seemed right its just very tortionally stiff and not a lit of give in the engine mounts so it shows up any amount of normal play in the splines and shafts. The diff mount bolts lessened the clunk but its still there and if in 4 at 20 to 30 mph if you up the throttle and of then on in traffic it still clunks away. now drive a lot more smothly and in 3rd below about 35. Also your backside is right beside it and not a lot of sound proofing so you tend to notice it more than a tin top and with the roof on it amplifies it more. Hope this helps Rust Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron_F Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Well, I suppose it is a relief to know that I'm not alone with my problem *eek* However, it's also a bit disappointing to hear that a rebuild by such a respected organisation as R&R still didn't solve it. I know that plate LSDs are noisier, does a Quaife ATB also make the same ugly noises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 What type of clutch are you using? If it is not a sprung drive plate the transmission shunt can be very bad, particularly if you have the looser LSD settings applied to ZF LSD's fitted to many race cars. Also if you run carbs or individual throttle bodies a small flow imbalance here can very much emphasise this problem. Ex Fat Arnie Fat by a different name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Tommo, I reckon if it's as jerky as you say it is probably down to a slight leanness in the mixture. Time to divert some pennies to an adjustable fuel pressure regulator (available from Oily). Also a restrictor in the idle air piping and an adjustment of the throttle stop will give a smoother transition back to idle. It might not be transmission related at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattie Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Jerky clunkiness is usually play in the tripod style UJs on the half shafts. With the car jacked up you can generally feel the play is mainly in that area. It certainly can make the low speed behaviour annoying if excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted December 24, 2014 Member Share Posted December 24, 2014 Has it got any worse in the last decade?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggerman Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 If you go far enough back in this forum, ie about 3-4 years you will find loads of info on this. If your car has a Quaife diff, then that will be the root of the problem. Many were noisy, clunky and with loads of backlash making the car difficult and annoying to drive.Caterham eventualy started fitting the BMW diff and drive train and that transformed the cars from hard core racers to sophisticated tourers. I changed mine from Quaife to BMW, if I hadnt done that, I would not be a Caterham owner now!Suggest you study the history.peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The Quaife LSD referrred to above has no bearing on the driveline shunt / excessive backlash issue.Caterhams OE final drive was the Ford Sierra version which if set up correctly will be nigh on silent, thereare many badly built version out there leading people to beleive the only solution is to use the later, heavier BMW unit which requires the use of a mounting cage to graft it into the chassis untill such a time that CC modify the chassis to make the BMW unit a bespoke fitment.If you have excess backlash speak with Steve at SP Components who will build / rebuild yours into a silent version http://www.spcomponents.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggerman Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The Ford Sierra diff was ok, but the version of this diff built by Quaife and used by Caterham as standard equipment for several years was as I described above. (i was not referring to the LSD version) My 2010 Roadsport 150 had two Quaife diffs from new and both were complete rubbish. Some say that if they are properly rebuilt they are ok and I have no reason to disagree with that view. However, the BMW diff is a proper solution and is the current standard Caterham fitment.peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ. Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 There are several factors involved in the diff noise issue in my opinion.1. There are noisy and quiet Ford diffs: An original Ford manufactured unit would be good from most accounts, but the remanufactured ones were of variable quality as some people have had a replacement and noticed a big improvement.2. I'm pretty sure the metric chassis played a part in this problem as it is difficult to get the diff bolts in as the bushes are not aligned properly and consequently they are compressed more than they should when the diff is fitted. A compressed bush would pass on more vibration to the chassis than one working as designed.3. I seem to remember Jason Flatcher finding the diff oild had a surprising effect on the noise in his SevenIn my case I had a Quaife built one in my 2010 car which wasn't bad on backlash but had a definite whine between 50 and 60 mph. I bought an original Ford diff and had it rebuild by Road and Race, backlash was better and the car drives really well. However, there is still a diff like whine noticeable when cruising between 50 and 60. It is silent when pressing on or at other cruise speeds and I've got used to it, but I do feel that there is a resonant frequency effect that my metric chassis amplifies.Just as an aside, I have wondered whether the BMW diff is made even quieter by not being as rigidly mounted to the chassis. I assume the bushes between the cradle and chassis line up better than on the Ford diff and also a big chunk of steel may well act to reduce resonances developing.Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrp Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 How easy is it to replace a ford diff with a bmw one on a late model car, and what would be the rough costs ? where is the best place to get the correct bmw diff.ThanksMrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggerman Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 MrP. Its not that simple as you need to replace the prop shaft and fit the additional mounting bracket. Caterham will supply the kit, suggest you call parts for a price. Fitting the kit is relaltivly straight forward. Allow a day. Caterham Midlands can fit the kit in about 3 hours!it is quite expensive, but its bliss to be able to drive without thinking about the transmission.peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ. Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 New driveshafts too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanium7 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 In my experience after two cr*p ford diffs the BMW one with a Titon LSD was so much better but was not completely silent but none of the whining. Now have a 14 year old car with the Ford diff and it's a quiet one thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBD762 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 OK, given all the above ( I think my 7 is in there somewhere, I.e clunky etc.) what is your valued opinion on just leaving it as it is?I've had my car 3 years now, I've known no different, so just perceived this is what Caterhams are like. The car is 2007, 1.6K series so I assume it's been like it since new. Apart from I accept it as a "characteristic" of the car, am I going to damage it? Or have a catastrophic failure sometime in the future? Mileage is 7K. Discuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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