Crany Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 My 1.6 SuperSport K loses oil pressure (down to 1 bar) when given a sound thrashing (using 6000 rpm), it also starts to sound rattley from the top end (I think), if you slow down or use less revs for a while the oil pressure comes back and the noise disappears, what do I need to do :- 1. Engine rebuild ? 2. Apollo tank ? 3. Something else ? Thanks, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 you sure your oil level is high enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Mark 1st I wouldn't drive it anymore untill you find the problem, I might suspect blocked oil pickup (bad sump foam baffle) or obviously as Dave suggests oil level Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon7 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Mark, If you feel the need to remove the sump to have a look at the baffle, give us a shout and I`m sure I might be able to find room in the garage to give it a coat of looking at. You know the numbers (I think) All the best Bry In space no one can hear you scream.....In a seven no one can smell your bottom ! It`s not yours,it`s............. R7 NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Pressure should be about 4 bar 'at revs' hot - i.e. anything above 3kish revs. Normal first-call (after checking the oil-level) would be to suspect the pressure-sender - but the noise is extremely worrying. Don't overfill the oil though as a 'precaution' - you'll get a good 7-10degrees higher OT and that's not good either (especially as the oil will be frothed and you've not got an apollo to calm it down again...) Get it looked at - if not by a 7 garage, then by another local owner or at a rover garage. Keep BC free and open for ALL. Membership No. 43xx Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crany Posted August 26, 2004 Author Share Posted August 26, 2004 I will re check the level, oil and foam baffle are only 8 months and 1000 miles (yes I know very poor) old, I think the problem was there before the car was serviced, but I put it down to old oil, I never get as much as 4 bar at revs hot, if it needs a rebuild it needs a rebuild I guess. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Can I point out that a sound thrashing of a K-series SS involves 7400rpm, not 6000rpm. Poor show. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 1st of all buy a new pressure sender, they are know to go-off! then look at oil pressure! if still low I'm afraid it's needs looking at! Martin MW 51 CAT Superlight No.171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crany Posted August 26, 2004 Author Share Posted August 26, 2004 Peter, I know that they will rev more, but was under the impresion that the power didn't increase over 6000 rpm is this correct ? I guess if you used more rpm it would put you in a higher power/rmp position in the next gear ? Or am I showing my ignorance ? Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted August 27, 2004 Support Team Share Posted August 27, 2004 Crany, Peter is taking the P*ss a little . However I'm sure that peak power is some way above 6000rpm. I have my shift lights set at over 7000 and regularly use the full revs available - there is definitely more urge over 6000 so I recommend trying it (after you have got the oil up to temperature of course ). One thing to watch is that you don't over-rev it - very easy in first and second. According to my Stack tell-tale I have seen 7800 😳 With regards to your oil pressure: 1. Check or replace the sensor as this is the most common casue of problems 2. Rattling at the top end could be the hydraulic tappets and this could be caused by air in the oil - an Apollo tank would help solve that. Also don't overfill with oil as that creates more windage in the sump and will make the aeration of the oil worse. 3. If you really are losing oil pressure then you need to get it seen to. Checking the state of the foam baffle in the sump would be a good thing to do and also low cost to replace. If none of the above solve the problem then I guess you'll need a professional to look at it. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted August 27, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted August 27, 2004 When the foam baffle is replaced it is necessary to remove the oil pickup pipe and the windage plate. The pickup pipe is sealed into the block by an o-ring which MUST seal to give effective pressure. H as the o-ring been replaced? Are you satisfied that it is sealing correctly? If there is a leak at the o-ring, in addition to a drop in pressure, the system can draw air, particularly if putting the suction under system under more pressure (pun not intended 😬) which you would be doing at high revs. This would in turn lead to rattly tappets until the air is dispersed out of the system. Check it out? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Paul Richards Posted August 27, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted August 27, 2004 Agree with Martin. FIRST BUY A NEW SENDER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Peak power on a 1.6 SS is at 7000rpm. There is usually a peformance gain to be had by revving out to ~7400rpm in the lower gears. I agree that a change of sender is the first step, but if that doesn't cure it be prepared to go looking in the sump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Having got fed up with electrical senders failing I, like a lot of others, have mounted it remotely to protect it from vibration. However this doesn't always solve the problem as electrical senders are inherantly poor in what they do. I've now bought a Mocal mechanical gauge to use as a reference but how accurate is this? This is what Gene Berg says about gauges; his website is http://www.geneberg.com/: "Why We Don't Sell Gauges — Technical Info Most Gauges Are "Horrible" I hear daily of engines being destroyed by people relying on gauges. I have run hundreds of accuracy tests on practically every inexpensive aftermarket gauge under $125 offered. Practically all read low in the 212 to 260 degree range by 40 to 50 degrees on oil temperature and head temperature gauges in the 250 to 550 degree reading range, again being low by as much as 250 or more degrees. I tested about twenty each of most brands such as VDO, Smith, Stewart Warner, Hawk, etc., and found none without these problems. Oil temperature gauge readings would be 212 to 220 degrees on the gauge when the true test temperature was 240 to 260 degrees. Head temperature gauges read 385 degrees with a true test temperature of 550 plus degrees. When head test temperatures were upped to 700 degrees, the reading of the gauge went up to 390 to 395 degrees. The price range of such gauges was from $60 to $125. I swapped gauges with senders and got different readings. I found nothing in that price range I would wish on my worst enemy. Not one I tested could ever be properly calibrated or relied on in any way for any valid information or even as a comparison from day to day on the air cooled VW. Yes, even the oil pressure gauges were just as bad. I found good accurate gauges range from about $250 to $350 and few people would buy them. What was needed was a device that gave the information required and was reasonably priced. That was the reason for the GB 227 in the first place. It is specifically made and calibrated to provide an accurate reading in the ranges of the VW air cooled engine. Originated by Hal Brown in 1972. Made in the USA. Note: If you must install an oil pressure gauge use GB 264-1/8 tee fitting and GB 265-1/8 pipe nipple to install the factory (Bosch VWA021-919-081B) light sending unit and the gauge together as the factory sender and light are over 100 times as fast to tell you if you run out of oil. Never use any sender that has the pressure and a light combination as they are extremely slow and you lose the rapid action that the factory light sender provides. Warning: If you want gauges as a decoration fine, but never rely on them. After all, if they provided reliable information I would be selling them to make a profit just like our competition." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongomania Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 My oil pressure guage has always been eratic at best. Many people just remove it altogether. Is there an easy modification that is reliable/accurate? Edited by - bongomania on 27 Aug 2004 13:12:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Replace them with Spa gauges. Simple job, they come with "proper" senders, and they're accurate. The other benefit is theywill drive an external warning light which means you don't have to keep looking at the gauge. You wait until the light screams at you then kill the ignition and work out the issue with your engine "quiet"... i.e. not doing itself any more damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 For what it's worth - I just tested my MOCAL mechanical oil temperature sender. In a pot of boiling water the gauge read just a touch under 100 and against a digital temp gauge, both read 60 when the water had cooled down - my tea now tastes funny 😬 BRG Brooklands SV 😬 It seems that perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crany Posted September 3, 2004 Author Share Posted September 3, 2004 Up date - Took the sump off last night, there was no debris in the pick up pipe, changed the seal on the pick up pipe (not sure that this was done when the new foam baffle was fitted !), re filled with new oil. I now have more more oil pressure and it didn't drop off or rattle, on the way home so fingers crossed and thank you to the collective knowledege. Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon7 Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Mark, Sorry I failed to reply to your text....various reasons Glad to here the problem may be sorted, I`m on earlies all weekend but you can contact me on the normal channels... Hope you feel happier about the weekend blat next week now. Best wishes mate Shaggers In space no one can hear you scream.....In a seven no one can smell your bottom ! It`s not yours,it`s............. R7 NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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