Irrelevant Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Yippee! . . . . I have a 2003 Busa engine with the associated gubbins and it's like new (only 1500 dry miles, absolutely spotless, negligible scratches). Total cost, including everything, was £2167.58. I reckon that's a minimum of £1K less than it would go for over here. The guy selling it was totally honest, even though it was via Ebay. Anyway, the reason I'm putting this here is that if anyone wants a Busa engine, or any other bike engine for that matter, email me and I will give you the guy's details - he tells me he can get engines whenever and now he's been through the export hastle once, he's happy to do it again Accumulating bits . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I think BECs should be left in the existing classes . . . .alongside Duratecs 😬 Accumulating bits . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 Great to see the debate still going strong!!Peter certainly knows from bitter experience how fickle a highly-tuned K-Series power plant can be!!Maybe the Duratec unit will be just that---DURABLE!Increased head size aside,it looks like Ford have strenthened things up over the K somewhat?Whatever your particular flavour of engine,Jez and I would welcome the 250h.p.power cars back into class 6 where they certainly belong.Failing that,we wouldn't mind dropping down a class,especially if Aintree and Mira didn't count next year!! 😬 '......in yer bike!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Youch! So the low blow gets returned. My bitter experience was all to do with the fickle owner of the reliable highly-tuned k-series power plant; not many engines can use their timing gear to ingest alternator belts and survive the experience. I will attempt to satisfactorily prove my point next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Brodie : "we wouldn't mind dropping down a class" & "Jez and I would welcome the 250h.p.power cars " Peter : "I will attempt to satisfactorily prove my point next season" Sounds like next season could be a good un in Class 5 😬 *thumbup* Sounds like a good time for me to put the Plenum chamber back on 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Dave, I can see myself heading up to class 6 next season. It is, as Brodie says, the class where 250bhp cars belong. The real motivation is that I don't know whether I can do it - use a stickier tyre and go significantly quicker. If I do go to class 6 it will be a learning experience. It will be a learning experience anyway to have the power back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 So do I need to get prices for toffee slicks for class 6 with my new engine and join the party ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 For what its worth I think the distinction betweenb class 5 and class 6 is that class 5 cars realy should be road used not just the power available . I feel my 5000 miles per year qualifies me for that ? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Faulds Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I don't neccessarily think the stickiest tyre you can get your hands on is a must for class 6. Past it R400 control compound ones went OK at Curborough t'other week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I recall the past it compound put in similar times to my knackerd 32R's ? That was about 4 seconds shy of toffee slicks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Faulds Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Having only ever seen Curborough that morning, and having 3 dry runs (each of which was 2 seconds quicker than the last), Rachel is pretty confident she can go a bit quicker with more practice rather than stickier tyres. Was Brodie the only one on soft compound tyres in the class? His driving suggests his success is down to far more than a mechanical advantage. Edited to say: That sounds critical, but all I'm trying to say is that people shouldn't feel they need to be spending loads on the last word in sticky rubber to do moderately well in a sprint. There are a lot of non-road legal caterhams about wich automatically go into Class 6 regardless of spec, and I think they should be encouraged to have a go. Edited by - Stuart Faulds on 7 Sep 2004 13:55:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Stuart, I've seen very few cars in class 6 this year. IIRC class 6 need FIA logbooks . . . although I may be wrong on this along with pretty much everything else I've stated that relates to regs. While I'm getting confused with regs . . .. don't you need a Non-Race National A licence for 2 litre+ (e.g. 2.3 Duratec) engined cars? If so, this may limit the number or 2.3 Duratecs we see at sprints. Accumulating bits . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Faulds Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Adam, you need a log-book under normal circumstances, but if you can prove that the car is primarily used in a race series then you don't need one (I think there's another exception too, but can't remember what). They're a doddle to get anyway - just a matter of having the car scrutineered and sending off the relevant paperwork with a photo (I think - it's been a while since I had one). I think you're right about the licence though. We had a good day out at Curborough - a very different and more relaxing time than a race day, and I think more racers and trackdayers should be encouraged to take part. Having to go out and buy a set of tyres especially adds a lot of money onto an otherwise very cheap day out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Adam You are right to sprint a car above 2 litres you need a 'Speed National A Open' Licence. You can obtain this by either having a Speed National A before the end of 2002 and paying the appropriate amount or upgrading your 'Speed National A' by getting 4 signatures at Hillclimbs and Sprints from the CoC. Graham Competition Secretary 2004 Speed Championship - 9 events Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irrelevant Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 BB - I think it's 6 signatures for the upgrade. (Better just add that I'm probably wrong on that 😳, but the woman at Goodwood read up in her MSA regs to check and it was 6 sigs for me to upgrade my N/R Nat B to a N/R Nat A. I thought the N/R Nat A covered a 2L+(equivalence) Caterham - maybe it's different for Libre cars of whatever the term is for non-road derived cars) Edited by - AdamHay on 7 Sep 2004 14:56:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 The need for a National A(Open) is for Sports Libre or Single Seater over 2 litres. So in general not relevant to anything Caterham based. There are two grades of National A Speed licences, the basic 'A' which you need for the British Hillclimb, Sprint, Midland Hillclimb, Brighton Sprint and other 'open' events and the A(Open) which you need to drive a big powerful Sports Libre or Racing car in any event. The former is 4 signatures, the latter another 4. This split was introduced a couple of years ago, before it was just 8 signatures for National A Speed. Collect 8 signatures regardless, you never know when you'll be offered a drive in something exciting or decide to enter Prescott... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 > The need for a National A(Open) is for Sports Libre or Single Seater over 2 litres I agree that this was the MSA intentions but are you sure of the wording? I thought it was for non road going cars over 2 litres. I looked into it when I was thinking of going for 98mm pistons (2.1 litres). Good job I stuck with 1993 cc then... My Nat A licence is pre 2002 though so has 8 signatures and I could get an Open licence next year if my engine should turn out to be 2.1 litres after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 L7.1.5 "For a driver to compete in a Racing or Sports Libre car manufactured after 31/12/60 of more than 2000cc, he must hold a Speed National 'A' (Open) or Race National 'A' licence, unless the car is currently licensed for use on the public highway and competes in a road legal condition" So I think as long as you remain 'Mod Prod' legal you can manage with a B or plain old A. What that means is much more obscure, you could be in trouble if you stretch a 2 litre to 2.1, or if you fit a Freestyle push rod system. But it would be nonsense if a Caterham was acceptable in up to 2L Mod Prod but not in over 2L when a Westfield or Dax qualifies for both. I think everybody should drive racing cars. The specific Technical Regulations for Speed Events are less than two inches long.... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 You're right just found it myself. I guess it's all down to "when is a caterham on slicks a modified kit car and when does it become a sports libre car". When I took the lights off I thought it would become subject to this rule by becoming a sports libre car but that hasn't proved the case to date. Still as it's still only 1993cc it's academic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Hi Peter Nice to see you posting again I can see myself heading up to class 6 next season......the class where 250bhp cars belong Currently class 4 to 5 is just tyres. Well I not complaining with my relatively low 200 bhp might even be a tad less now. If you all bu88er off I have no excuse for being last . Plus I might be in a class of fewer. So no sour grapes here. Having got that out of the way there is a large discrepancy in power to weight. Yes I regrettably have passed 19 stone since my err 'feed me up holiday' and really need to get that sorted. Hi Brodie Turning on the TV last week in a saloon car race they were talking about the cars having to carry added weight to even them all out. Pass on which I only saw a brief clip, seemed to involve just a tad of nudge the car next to you and hope he plays 10 pin bowling with the rest. I doubt it involves driver weight just 'evening' up different car models weight. Still power to weight would be the obvious factor. 😬 Still an interesting concept given the current discussion. ❗ So that all then makes results = driver ability .... other than the often ever changing wet/dry/and regrettably oil condition of the track ❗ So before all say unworkable, for those that organise it would be a nightmare. PS if you can not drive it there and need a trailer then Class 6 anyway 😬 😬 😬 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? engineered by Roger King, on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Attention Peter C! With reference to your explanation on the inability of a bike engine to make full use of its potential 'breathing capabilities' due to a relatively short stroke etc,would you say that boring-out our engines to say 1400cc would be unwise? Another option is the 1500cc stroker-crank,which would be more costly of course!!We would rather do neither! P.S. Thanks for your generous comments '......in yer bike!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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