Starter Motor Kaput?

[Steve Fleming]

Have I finally cooked it?

Have had trouble with starter motor on my Superlight over last few months due to overheating but I think it has finally died. It is heat wrapped and the manifolds are insulated but all it now emits is a 'click' when asked to perform its service. Battery is fully charged.

 

Any suggestions that it might be other than the motor itself before I pick up the phone and order a new one from Caterham??

 

Steve

[Mike Bees]

Use a voltmeter to check that you're getting 12v on the starter solenoid connection when the ignition is turned to the cranking position. If you are then it's the solenoid that's gone duff. It's a common problem since they get cooked by the exhaust.

 

The starter is a standard Sierra part IIRC, go to a Halfords or Lucas outlet (take the knackered one with you), it'll be much cheaper. I got an exchange starter from Lucas for less than 40 quid, although sadly after 3 months it's suffering from solenoid trouble. The strange thing is that the solenoid is still drawing current, so it's not a connection problem, it's just intermittently not throwing the piston.

 

It is possible to replace just the solenoid.

 

Mike

[Nick Green]

Starter Motors...cue Nick smile.gif

 

Steve, You might find Halfords (or wherever) won't accept a Magneton starter in exchange (if that is what you have - solenoid on the bottom).

 

The Halfords code is HSM407. Mine's lasted 4 months so far.

 

If you have the older Magnetti Marelli type, the fix seems to be: remake the solder joint on the actuator terminal, and cover in araldite.

 

Hope the above is of some assistance.

[ian c]

you can test the starter by using a screwdrive or similar to short between pos. and switch on starter .make sure car is in nuetral !!!

 

if itdoesn't turn connect jump lead from batt. pos. to starter pos. and try again . if it works you have obviously got a bad pos. connection .

 

like wise connect jumplead between starter earth and chassis , to check earth connections .

 

 

[allen]

Steve, in reference to Nick's comment:-

 

In my experience Halfords never check what you return - pay the deposit bring back the dead item later. Use the new item box, they don't bother to look inside.

 

My Halfords starter now in its 3rd year (on 1800 Zetec)

 

Regards,

 

allen

[Nick Green]

Knew I was too honest for my own good sad.gif

[Steve Fleming]

Thanks for suggestions so far. I'm living in France so I'm afraid my local Halfords is not going to be an option.

 

The last time I spoke to Caterhams about starter motors they said the starter for Superlights was a Skoda part. Is this correct?

 

Steve

[Nick Green]

Steve,

 

Yes, for all K installations, apart from the R500, a Magneton starter is used. This is as supplied for the Octavia, but a different plate is fitted so that it will mate to the Caterham bellhousing (in other words, a Sierra pattern fitting plate is put on). This version is only obtainable from Caterham, I believe.

 

I think, from previous times this has come up, that the Lucas code is STR543 ?? Perhaps Mike Bees or Luke Beaumont could confirm ?

 

If that translates to other brands, avoid the Bosch one anyway, as it is too big.

 

Just had a look back through the thread. You don't say whether your starter is a solenoid on top job or not. If it is (sol on top), it may well be repairable: Try resoldering the actuator wire joint, and encase in araldite.

 

Edited by - nick green on 19 Jul 2001 15:07:43

 

Edited by - nick green on 19 Jul 2001 15:10:27

[Mike Bees]

That's the code Nick. Although that's for a dimensionally-identical to the original Caterham-supplied Magnetti-Marelli unit, which I thought was of Ford Sierra origin rather than Skoda, so I'm now slightly confused.

 

Is the Magnetron a geared jobbie? I know that they have supplied at least 2 different types of geared starter, one of which is the Cambridge Motorsport-supplied Edge.

 

Mike

[Nick Green]

The Halfords code is also for a magnetti-marelli-equivalent Lucas starter, with the solenoid on the top. This is the one for which the fix I've suggested has been known to work. Halfords sell it as being for some Sierra models.

 

The Magneton starter is the Skoda (as in "supplied to", not "manufactured by") starter that Caterham now supply. This has the solenoid on the bottom. It is also geared. I, and others, have had the same non-starting symptoms as on the top-sol starters, but with no quick fix so far devised, that I know of.

 

I think the Edge one is supplied for the R500. I've been told by peeps at Caterham that it is a race car/F3000 starter. Anyone with an R500 want to confirm ?

 

 

[Chris King]

I've started to have more trouble with my starter motor over the past year - it was fine for the many thousands of miles in the previous two/three years. Usual K-series problem of pressing the starter button and nothing happening apart from a dull click.

 

The problem seems to be exacerbated when the engine is very cold (i.e. stored in the garage overnight).

 

Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

Chris.

[Peter Carmichael]

There is a workaround for the dodgy connection in the solenoid on top (Magnetti Marelli) type that worked for me on and off for two years:

 

Wiggle the positive connection from the relay as you turn the key and hey presto it starts. I got very good at doing this using a Nomex glove in between the headers. I also had the joy of not having an operative handbrake, so hills were interesting (think about it - the car has to be out of gear) and I got very good at not stalling.

 

A refinement of the above is to wrap insulating tape around a big ring spanner (3/4in is a good size), leaving the metal exposed just at the end. You then aim to short the two connections on the back of the solenoid (the battery positive to the relay positive). The mechanical pressure of the spanner being applied does the wiggling bit for you and the insulating tape stops you welding a spanner to your exhaust headers.

 

The failure is very little to do with heat and is a lot to do with vibration. I have dismantled and remade the connection and have experienced no further problems, even starting a high compression 250bhp engine, which is just as well as my R500 starter (new, in a box and available to a reasonable bidder) won't fit under my custom exhaust headers.

[Mike Bees]

It's probably the solenoid playing up. When the solenoid throws it's piston there is a dirty great clunk. The small click is the relay which is trying to energise the solenoid. It's easy to get a voltmeter onto the solenoid connection on the starter (the where the 'thin' wire attaches from the loom) and see if it gets 12v when you turn the key to the cranking position. If it is getting 12v and it's not throwing it's piston then the solenoid is either duff/on it's way out or the end cap on it has come loose (this happened to my nearly new one - just needed to tight up the 2 screws holding it on). FWIW the 'end cap' is the black (high-temp plastic) cap on the forward end of the solenoid to which the connections are made.

 

I'm assuming this is the conventional Sierra starter and not one of the fancy geared ones.

 

You can replace the solenoid for 15-20 quid. I did this on mine, after which the solenoid behaved rather like a machine-gun as you cranked the engine over. I then replaced the whole starter for 34ukp+VAT exchange, the new one works far better than the old one had for the last couple of years.

 

Mike

[pfreeman]

My original lightweight starter on the R500 lasted about 3 months before it was replaced with another lightweight one - this lasted another 3 months before aheavier and more robust version was fitted.

 

This lasted about 6 months but had to be replaced again. The fourth one, has started to perform the 'click' but no start after 2 months - simple enough thing to get right you might have thought...

 

As for the part, I believe the new one is from the F3000s.

 

Peter - I might be in the market for another new starter motor !

[Chris King]

Thanks for the replies folks - I wanted an idea of possible causes and ease of fix 'cos the car is going to be with me in the centre of Manchester all next week and I'm fed up of it failing to start whilst parked in the underground car-park (the run-up area is very limited!)

 

It's a very discrete thing, it either works flawlessly or not at all, and does indeed sound like a relay clicking and then nothing. I guess I'll wait until Oulton Park on Saturday when I can get it checked out properly... See you all there.

 

Cheers,

Chris.