V7 SLR Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 I live 5 mins from SPC in Redditch. Steve Perks is spoken of very highly when people discuss modifications to the 5-speed box but most of the talk about the 6-speed box seems to involve Phil Stewart from Road & Race. So, has anyone had any experience of SPC for a 6-speeder?... or has anyone a list of the upgrades that Phil Stewart can implement or actually has applied to their 6-speeder so I can discuss these with Steve Perks? It seems such a faff to take my gearbox to R&R (around 200 miles each way) given that I'm so close to SPC but I want to ensure I get the right service and upgrades. There's nothing actually wrong with it by the way, but while my engine's out it seems prudent to have the box looked at. Mine's a late 99 variant so there's probably a lot of upgrades available for it by now. Edited by - v7 slr on 16 Aug 2004 13:33:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Sorry I can't help re question, but it'll be interesting to know of any upgrades mine is a 2001? Martin MW 51 CAT Superlight No.171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 If you check the regs for the R400 championship there's a list of permitted mods for the 6 speeder. If this list makes it strong enough for the seasons R400 racing then I'd say that was the list of mods you need. Regs here. follow the Superlights and Download regs links. Section 5.9.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 Uprated 5th gear, uprated top breather and stronger gear selector arm. There is nothing really special about the 6 speeder I personally use Phil Stewart but if Steve Perks was on my doorsep I would probably try him. All the box will need is a new set of syncro rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 15, 2004 Author Share Posted August 15, 2004 Thanks guys. I'll give Steve a ring tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted August 16, 2004 Support Team Share Posted August 16, 2004 Whereabouts are SPC and Road&Race? My engine and 6 speed box are coming out of the car this winter and I would like to get thebox checked while it's out. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Steve´s workshop looks a bit "adventurous" and untidy but his work has always been top level. I think he´s thinking about moving to another premise, so he doesn´t invest much in his current workshop. Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 SPC are in Redditch just a few miles south of Birmingham. R&R are in Kent between Sevenoaks and Brands Hatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 Today I've been pretty productive. I've booked my gearbox into Road and Race Transmissions in Kent (SPC on holiday until end of August) and I've spoken with Alan at Scholar about the 1900cc conversion. Chap I spoke to at R&R (not Phil Stewart) reckoned my late 1999 6-speeder shouldn't require many of the upgrades although when I pointed out what power I was expecting to put through it, he thought 3rd, 4th and 5th might need replacing. I have to get the box out this weekend, take the plate off and inspect 5th gear to see if there's an oil drilling in the gear (or something). If they can get the info of what my gearbox needs before I take it to them, they will ensure they have all the right parts. Then, I can drop it off, wait 4 hours and take it home with me. Saves another 400 mile round trip. Cost will be £125 plus parts. They take credit cards or cheques. I joked about them taking cash because that's all I really have, and the chap thought I was asking for a cash deal... I'll have to give that a shot when I go there. Going to find time to go next week. Anyone live near Brands Hatch who fancies a visit, or know where I can use a wireless internet connection for 4 hours in the middle of the day? Regarding Scholar, there are a few things you might want to know if you're interested in going this route: 1. If I understood Alan correctly, they have only so far done this on race engines with 2-ring pistons. 2. Their 3-ring pistons are not due until the 1st week of September. 3. Cost will be between £700 and £800 plus VAT. This is for an EVO2 interference liner conversion, bored out to 1900cc and to supply these 3-ring pistons. 4. You will use the head gasket from an 1800. Apparently the fire ring is just wide enough that it is not shrouding the cylinder bore. I didn't enquire about turn-around time. Didn't want to press him as he wasn't 100% certain how long the pistons were going to be (currently in manufacture), and I'm not terribly under pressure for an early finish. I would like to go on the Borders end of year blat, but that may not be possible anyway. Hope I can afford all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom7 Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Nig, What sort of numbers are you looking for when this is done and without scaring yourself, how does the £ per bhp / lb-ft stack up? Just interested. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Someone is bound to put me right on this if I am wrong, but when I visited R&R a couple of years ago I think Phil explained that the oil drilling was a weakness that might cause the tooth to fail on that cog. If you are looking for somewhere to visit while in the area, Freestyle are not far away and always give a friendly welcome. Good donuts (providing Nemiesis and Bowser haven't got there first) and coffee. Both R&R and Freestyle are located on farms in the nice Kent countryside. Edited by - Graham Perry on 16 Aug 2004 14:08:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 Tom, I'm not interested in a £ per "anything" comparison really. Too scary. I just pick work and components that are best and go with it when I can afford it. I rarely go with anything other than best even if I have to wait for it (most of the time). I doubt it could ever be described as good value in the eyes of my wife, but I can't think of anything better to spend the money on. As for overall costs... it's looking something like this: Scholar 1900 plus pistons = £700-£800 + vat R&R gearbox upgrade and service = £125 plus parts (no idea really) + vat DVA head refresh and new cams = ~£600 Loads and loads of ancilliaries including Samco hoses & clips, steel oil pump rotor, head gasket, exhaust gasket, inlet gasket, bottom end shells, stretch bolts, new clutch inc CRB, longer trumpets, new air filter and backplate, oil, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorAtle Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 It would be interesting to learn at least what spec the new 1144 cams are and what you hope to achieve with them (compared to the 1227)... I don't seem to reach peak power with the 835/1227 below 8000rpm, at least it doesn't feel like it, I'm hoping the extra 100cc will bring the power band a tad down. I could be wrong, maybe it's only more stroke that will do this?? Looking very much forward to the first reports on the 1900cc conversion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 Piper's intention with the 1444's seems to be to bring the peak torque down the rev range, which ought to have a knock on effect on where peak power is achieved. Thing is, only Steve Butts seems to have done this so far and he has rediculously long inlet trumpets (something I'm also hoping to do) but his is on the 1800. In all, long trumpets, larger capacity and these new cams ought to work together for more power/torque lower in the rev range. Looks like I'll not be mobile again until at least the end of Sept, but I'll obviously let you know the results. It's a shame I've not the money to do one change at a time, but I need to get on and do it all together. Pair of good cond 1227 cams for sale if interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Last time I spoke to Scholar they suggested a reprofile of the 1227 cams to their spec...might be a cheaper option Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Nigel, I think Scholar have their own collection/delivery scheme..certainly do locally. Presumably they charge for this. If you need/want a hand with delivery/collection I live a stones throw from them (10 miles or so) and shall be at Curborough on 29th August. Can go to Staffs at anytime to see the family. Usual rules apply - no fee just a donation to NTL Drop me a line if I can help. Nifty. P.S. Could probably help with the gearbox too if they can't do it while you wait. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 The 1144 cams have been used in Rally engines for some time - especially super 1600 rally cars . They are biased towards low down torque . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Nifty, thanks for the offer of moving things around. Truth is I quite fancy going to these places myself, just so I can see them. These pistons are new so is there anything I need to know about them? From conversations with four people now, I had thought it might be prudent to ask: Is there any cut-out for valves in the piston tops? Are they interference fit of fully floating little ends? What is the expected compression or is the piston height the same as my 1800 ones? I had expected this 1900cc conversion to be a fairly simple upgrade, but if there is any "specifying" to be done I might be in over my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 nige - please call me when you have a moment 07771 891947 Ta Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Dave, I left a message with your collegue (she sounded sweet ). I'm on my mobile, the same number I called from. I'll try you again later if I don't hear from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 You spoke to Jules ............ she aint called "sweetcheeks" for nothing I called you back and left message ........ Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Picture of Jules ?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 I have today spoken with Phil Stewart and booked my gearbox in for Tuesday next week. He has advised me that the upgrades can run to £1000 if I go mad, so I'll talk with them at the time about which ones are worth doing. I've got about £500 to spend on it, and no more. Nice chap. Then I called Scholar again to discuss the 1900cc conversion. Essentially they are pitching it as a plug and play solution. That's all I needed to know, although I did ask specifics about compression ratio and valve cut-outs. Alan was great to talk to and understood the need to offer an uncomplicated solution. Nice chap. I've also spoken with Dave Jackson about this conversion and he has offered a good amount of advice and guidance. Nice chap, and one of ours. Thanks Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Nige, Fine *thumbup* If the circumstance changes you know where to find me 😬 Marius, Good idea.. *tongue* 😬 😬 😬 Come on Dave, don't have us hanging on a thread like this Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Nifty, I read some of the thread on ChitChat about the "courier service". Given that I'm booked to go from Redditch in the Midlands to Road & Race near to Brands Hatch next Tuesday, I could easily squeeze in anyone else's stuff. I've an estate car and a gearbox isn't going to much trouble the load space, although it's a little heavy. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to go out of my way owing to work commitments (I'll be on a teleconference during the trip down ☹️), but am happy to meet people at either end. Also, it looks like I'll be going from here to Cambridge in early Sept. Probably 6th. I'll have more time to go a little out of my way then as I'll be on holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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