charlie_pank Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 For some inexplicable reason I have an urge to convert Kermit to Blackbird power. This is a long term plan for when funds and time allow. In the meantime, I would very much appreciate it if you would consider the list of things I will need to change and let me know if I have missed anything or if there's anything that I have included in the list of changes that doesn't need to be altered... Current config: 1.6 K series engine Emerald ECU 5spd Type 9 gearbox Standard Diff (non LSD) De-dion rear Desired spec: Blackbird EFI engine LSD Things I will need to dispose of: Kseries engine gearbox propshaft Diff intake manifold wiring loom full exhaust system instrumentation (rev counter, speedo etc....) dashboard ECU (unless I can use the emerald for the Blackbird engine - which would be nice) Engine & Gearbox mountings Fuel tank and pump (unless I can use the old ones with the new engine) Things I will need to install: Engine & gearbox New mountings ECU (see Emerald info above) Airbox Full exhaust system and probably new sideskin Bastardised wiring loom LSD Propshaft Dry sump Stack dash Full new dashboard Gear linkage Fuel tank and pump (unless I can use the old ones with the new engine) I would welcome your thoughts on this and if anyone has an idea of the cost, that would also be extremely useful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You also have to count on getting rid of your passenger footwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Monoogian Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You'll only have to have a reskin if you're not happy with the current appearance or the exhaust exit is dramatically further forward/back. Otherwise surely it's just a case of enlarging the hole? (Obviously depending on what exhaust system you currently have). Also you could probably re-use your silencer though if you do track days you'll probably want something else to quieten it down a bit. Do you have a windscreen? Heater? If not it would probably be easier to modify a bike loom i.e. by extending the bit that goes to the back for lights. Though I can't remember if bikes are fitted with foglights. The first ever blackbird simply used the clocks from the bike mounted on the dash. Looked ok IMO but you may want something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Peter, don't you remember blatting up and down the M20 with your knees up round your ears? I don't have a passenger footwell anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You get to keep the fuel tank and pump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Peter - Great :) what about the ECU? Also not sure about the half shafts etc... Sam - thanks. I do have screen, but no heater. I don't mind modifying the bike loom to include a screen heater and foglight... Edited by - charlie_pank on 16 Jul 2004 15:48:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You can keep the diff casing and change the internals to an LSD. Half shafts remain the same. The Emerald ECU will happily run a bike engine. You just need to fudge the wiring loom to suit and pay attention to how the crank speed is sensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 It's getting cheaper by the minute... 😬 if I can keep the diff casing, presumably I can keep (at least half of) the propshaft too... Sounds like I'm going to need to spend some time on willshefindout.com to figure out how to do this without SWMBO getting wind of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I am sure this is a farking vast project and I'm far from convinced the best way to do it is with a Caterham. Do you have the necessary skills to start with a Locost and go from there? At least you can do what you need to en route. The easiest way to remove weight after all is not to have it in the first place - when you build from scratch you save the weight of a boot floor, for example, by the simple expedient of omitting to fit one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Battered, I'm sure you're right. Thing is, I don't think I can bear to part with Kermit. He already has so many of the things that I want, I don't want to start from scratch and have to add them all again. I'm (currently) happy with all aspects except the lack of bike-engined-ness. Also - is it really such a huge project - what do you think is going to be the stumbling block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I have a Blackbird. I used to have a 1.6K. After due consideration I calculated it was cheaper to sell the K intact and buy an entirely different car. Cost to change was 2.5K. If you have time/space/technical aptitude, then I'd suggest BOSS is right - build your own! Barry Hunt did an excellent job with his lightweight sprint special. IIRC Barry reckoned to have spent about 16K. Could I ask why you are a bird fancier? IMHO the performance is way too manic for (sensible) road use, and the weight is only about 80kg less than my old K so I will still expect to get out-dragged by R4/500s on track. 11750rpm makes I smile, tho... 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You'll be out-dragged in a straight line but should be able to brake later and carry more corner speed. Also wear and tear on pads and tyres should be less. I agree that the sensible option is to sell the K series and buy a Blackbird. The price of bike engined Caterhams has been weak of late and you might be able to do it without it costing you much if anything. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You didn't mention the dreaded reverser about which much has been said. If you decide to do without I think you'll still be better off with a split prop and a centre bearing. You'll need an oil cooler if you don't have one and may need to change your rad also. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 I fancy a blackbird because I will get more power for less weight (I'm a skinny shortarse too!) and a 6 speed sequential gearbox thrown in for free. I was always a bit dubious about BECs mostly because of the rumours of them being difficult to live with etc... however, I now have a bike licence and a bike, and I can fully appreciate that all that has been said is true - the change into 1st from neutral is clunky and the bike does tend to scream a bit at the upper end of the rev range 😬. However, I don't find either of these things a problem on a bike, and don't really see that they would make a 7 any more inconvenient than it already is. I'm not keen to go down the route of overstressing my metro engine as I feel it's a bit overworked as it is, so in order to get more of the right kind of power (the high revving kind) I think a bike is the right answer. The reason that I fancy a 'bird is simply that a few other people have done it and this makes me think that the parts are likely to be readily available. Are you suggesting that it might be cheaper for me to start from scratch by buying the bits I need from Caterham (ie rolling chassis) and then sourcing the other bits myself (eg engine, propshaft, loom, ecu etc...)? Charlie'n'Kermit The plan is: There is no plan S5EVN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 No that wouldn't be cheaper, in fact that would work out a mega expensive way of doing it in the long term given the poor residuals on bike engined Caterhams. Your best bet would be to sell yours then buy an existing Blackbird engined car. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 For what it's worth, I would go Busa from the begining, if not you can guarantee that you will end up wishing for the extra grunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Agreed - but only if starting from scratch. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 It depends on budget really, a 'bird can be picked up for just over a grand these days whereas busa's are still well over £2k and nearer £3k usually. Both really need a dry sump so no saving on either one there. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 That's very true, but starting with a 'busa is better than starting with a Blackbird then attempting to extract more power from it. That's speaking from the pov of someone with a tuned 'bird. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Noticed this the other day. If it's cost versus power could be an answer http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=109412&f=30&h=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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