Mark_H Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Alex, They weren't both Caterhams, only one was. But the other car was still putting similar power through and it let go. I don't want appear to be slating the gearbox, just relaying what I have heard! Personally, I would love to go down the route of the elite if it could be guaranteed that there would be no problems. But, it appears that the route I have chosen is a safer option IMHO! I am hoping for 270bhp, and you never know may want more in the future.. and I think the gearbox should be able to handle it. I like to over engineer things to ensure (as far as you can) reliability! Maybe your 240bhp will be fine, and the others are just pushing it that bit too much?! No doubt in 6 months, I will wish I had chosen a sequential...who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 it appears that the route I have chosen is a safer option I definitely agree with you on this, but I was feeling adventurous, I I didn't like the Quaife sequential when I tried Arnie's. I think if I was going for a Quaife dog box, I'd go for an H-pattern one.... I think. The Elite box has been an absolute hoot to use on track and on the road. Absolutely no false neutrals, very fast shifts when you get the knack of it and after a few minor tweeks and adjustments, I like the high gearlever position too. Do you know what failed in those 2 Elite boxes? Hi Dave, My box has gone back to Elite to have some ratio changes and a potentiometer fitted for a gear indicator. I believe DaveK's is in a similar situation. Edited by - Alex Wong on 16 Jul 2004 12:11:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fun to Drive Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 If you are needing a gearbox with high torque capability is it worth considering using a gearbox from the likes of a Vauxhall Omega V6, Jaguar V6, Nissan 350Z etc? The Jaguar S-Type V6 uses a Getrag 221 gearbox rated to 300Nm, weighs only 33 kg and is rather compact. Off hand I do not know what the ratios are. Not an especially close ratio box so may not suit. No idea what the price is, and obviously an adaptor would be needed. Any thoughts? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I believe Lol Pilfold has a Getrag box in his 7 but I could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Lol uses a box std fit out of an old Opel Manta. The Quaife Alex tried in my car was an early version and the change is much much improved now the updates have been retrofitted (free of charge!!!) I am currently putting over 280bhp/200ft lbs through mine, and have no issues. False neutrals have been pretty much eliminated unless one fluff's it on a downchange. The QUaife weighs in at just 3 or 4 kilos over the Caterham 6 speed. Its position in the car is such that this additional weight is of no consequence. Ex Fat Arnie Hauling Less Lard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESOLVIWOLF Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 not trying to sh1t stir.. just offer up some facts i have personally witnessed 3 elite failures (& resultant early baths) at trackdays. As I understand it 2 of those failures were from the same car with mediocre (sub 200) bhp and torque (2nd failure after it was fixed) and the 3rd failure has since failed again (making a 4th failure but one that i didnt witness). as we know, these maybe because of specific problems with these isolated units but currently my plans to change teh bgh to an elite over the winter are very much on hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Arnie, how much would a Quaife unit cost now? I would like to investigate the 6-speed with 1:1 top. I would like all the alloy casing options (which I understand are extra) but am not interested in the dash-mounted gear indicator display (I'm going to incorporate that into something else). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 From memory EFA's cost him about £50, four cups of Coffee & my 70,000 mile type 9 & he calls me tight ❗ 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 i have personally witnessed 3 elite failures (& resultant early baths) at trackdays Hmmmmm How much is the airfare from Marrakesh to Blighty? Rich - who did this happen too? I'd like to know what failed and whether I seriously need to think about running a different box for the Rally. Edited by - Alex Wong on 16 Jul 2004 16:44:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Aves, I'm not tight, I'm shrewd.... V7 - List around £3500 & VAT - Phil Stewart would be a good guy to ask for a discount.... Ex Fat Arnie Hauling Less Lard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Thanks Arnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 Alex, I wouldn't worry. You're not the roughest of drivers, and I don't believe it's any weaker than a Caterham 6-speed which is adequate for your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 adequate for your car. Poor little VDU.... All these big powerful engines and their broken chassis' and cracked gearboxes. My car feels quite inadequate. No broken gearboxes or cracked chassis. Not even a damaged diff mounting... ☹️ Well I did break en engine mount. Does that count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I'll have to remember the distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You're not the roughest of drivers, and I don't believe it's any weaker than a Caterham 6-speed which is adequate for your car. Strangely enough, I think that will be my downfall. With the dog boxes, quick hard shifts are better for the gears as there are no synchro's to look after. I think I shift too slowly for the dog box and occasionally get gears clattering on gears before it slots in. A bit more brutality wouldn't be a bad thing! Edited by - Alex Wong on 16 Jul 2004 17:52:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I was at the rolling road a couple of weeks ago and on the rollers when i arrived was an escort rally car with a vx motor fitted running a quaife seq box. i got talking to the guy and, unprompted by me, he started to talk about all the problems he had with elite. He'd gone to them after having problems with an early quaife box, but dumped the elite back on their doorstep after it let go twice on him. His current quaife was OK...fingers crossed. His Vx was showing 220 at the wheels. I'm sure a rally car would be extremely hard on the mechanicals but aren't these boxes designed to take the punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 For the record I think it's worth noting the following in relation to the Elite box: First of all there are several types in circulation currently; The billet cased 5 speeds using the original sequential mechanism across the back of the box - these come with either 8, 4 or 5 dog gears. The new cast case 5 and 6 speeds with 5 dog gears. I've got an original billet cased 5 speed which originally had 8 dogs but now has 4. I've had 3 seperate problems with this development box. The first was several 'dog on dog' changes which was immediately resolved by moving from 8 dog to 4 dog gears. Then I had a broken input shaft which was addressed and sorted, the revised version of which can now be found in all the box types. The third problem was when I couldn't get 5th gear. This was traced to poor build quality i'm afraid but is now sorted after Aaron Tucker at HTR reassembled the box. 4 dog gears is fine for my appication but not ideal for street or circuit use as there is a wide spacing between the dogs which hence wear quickly with road or track use. Dave Townley suffered this problem recently and switched to 8 dogs as an interim measure although Elite are now supplying 5 dog gears for his old style box. There are no such problems with the new 5 speed box by all accounts, although a lack of detent pressure means the box doesn't have the 'feel' of the old style one. I understand that Elite are working on this cosmetic problem and have a solution in hand. The new 6 speed as JH states requires a seperate lever for reverse (unlike the 5 speed) which I don't really like personally. Since Aaron rebuilt my box it feels fantastic, and when combined with my powershift set up it's as good as it gets in my opinion with 5/100th second gear changes and seamless progress without the torque reaction normally associated with changing gear. The parts and design of my Elite box are superb being of March design and although the gears are small and light (less inertia) they are made of a far superior material to Quaife's. Unfortunately bad news travels far more quickly than good. That said I do believe Elite have rushed this box on to the market and although the components are lovely the build quality hasn't been up to scratch in some cases. The Quaife has proved to be a robust item but it lacks the real advantage over the equivalent H pattern box being heavy and cumbersome in operation compared to the Elite. If in doubt, and if funds permit the Drenth is a serious bit of kit that combines the advantages of both. Home of HTR700 Edited by - edmandsd on 16 Jul 2004 23:14:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Thanks Dave - I'll sleep better now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 The Quaife is a sequential mechanism only, it's just a Type 9 with a camdrum selector. The Elite is a true sequential. When we ran a Quaife (early box) it was great depsite many false neutrals (just make sure your rev limiter is working), but a very heavy box that wore through dogs very quickly. I'd be looking at a rebuild every six months or so (which is a pain in the ass as it's the entire engine + box out). I'd go back to it if needed, but Drenth/Elite would be first on my list of choices. Graeme. ________________________________________________________ graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport graeme@fluke-motorsport.co.uk / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Wow This is a real kick em whilst they are down on elite!!! I ran the late spec in my hillclimb car for 5 meetings at the start of this year. Apart from a few missed gears which i put down to driver error in the heat of the moment i had no problems. times were equivalent to the 4 speed box despite conditions not being perfect. As Dave Jackson mentioned i have put the 4 speed box back in for the following reasons 1)I wanted a gear position indicator which required a new case 2)My original choice of ratios were not working( this was found to be that i had alex's ratios and vice versa.) 3)I wanted to fit a gearcut for the quickshift in the ecu 4)The lever pressure needed to be stronger which required stronger springs on the shuttle mechanism. All of the above have been addressed by Elite. I'm not against quaife boxes by any means as my 4 speed box has served me very well over the past 3 years, but you have to go forward with any mods and i personally think the elite box will suit my purpose better than a quaife. Whilst the basic inline box my be new the concept of the box has been in mass production for a while with over 100 boxes in active competition, if it was as bad as some people are making out it would be replaced. Also the world hotrod final was won by a car using a 5 speed seq ELITE box Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asspec Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 All this tech talk's fine but the bottom line is what is the price difference between Elite box and Quife box 6 speed of course. If they are both as good as each offer that is. Learning all about my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asspec Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Sorry Quaife box before i get my knuckles wrapped for mispellings 😬 😬 Learning all about my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted July 19, 2004 Author Share Posted July 19, 2004 No that's not the bottom line. I started on the assumption that the Elite, whilst being a nice lightweight alternative to any box fitted in a Caterham, wouldn't be strong enough for my application yet I believed a Quaife *might* be, so I asked how strong the Quaife was. That's the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asspec Posted July 19, 2004 Share Posted July 19, 2004 Kenny didn't you say you had a limited budget thats why I asked the question for myself also (sorry for partially stealing your thread) Learning all about my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 20, 2004 Share Posted July 20, 2004 DaveK - Thanks for your post which is reassuring. It was an absolute hoot using your ratio's on the road!! I still think I've made the right decision but it's only in my nature to worry about being stranded in Northern Africa with a new bit of kit that hasn't been in my car for a year or two!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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