zak Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Maybe this should be on ChitChat..... but I am after a bit more than a chit chat response. Can anyone help? I need a subjective "how it feels to drive" response. When pushing on round the bends my car ( or rather my driving 😬) can step out behind and it happens too fast for me to correct in the dry. Yes, I am not Michael Schumacher Will an LSD improve things or make things worse? I have only experienced an LSD in a front wheel drive application so any input would help. Part 2 of the question is which one? Seen AP suretrak and Quaife ATB - costs subjective feedback about them invited. Oh and if anyone has one they want to sell..... 😬 My car for your info is running R300 15inch wheels with CR500s and is a DeDion VVC with a 6speed box, with Freestyle AVO suspension setup. Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert green Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I don't have a LSD so can't comment on that. However. you can alter the handling on a seven by playing with the rear anti roll bar, or adjusting tyre pressures and flat flooring. MAny experts here on Blatchat, but freestyle seem to have good reviews. You may be better looking at spending the money an LSD would cost on some driver training. I spent a day with Don Palmer last week. I started out spinning quite regularly, but by the end of the day was able to catch the slides, and was even inducing them for fun 😬 😬 😬 Doesn't answer you question but hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted July 7, 2004 Support Team Share Posted July 7, 2004 Zak, A flat floor set up with someone like Freestyle will tune the car to your tastes better than fitting an LSD. If however you do lots of trackdays then an LSD is a worthwhile investment. Shaun Edited to remove the obviously incorrect view that an LSD would not necessarily make the back end easier to catch. I thought I had read this in previous posts and a quick search revealed that some people thought that an LSD could result in quicker transition to oversteer and tricky handling if wheels were on different surfaces (e.g. wet leaves, ice, etc.). I think that the upshot is it would be "different" and at the limit this could cause you a problem. Yellow SL #32 Edited by - Shaun_E on 7 Jul 2004 13:34:05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I'm not a huge expert on these things, but Phil Stewart of Road & Race Transmissions who knows all there is to know about diffs and gearboxes say the ZF LSD (with the correct ramp angles) is the one to have for the Se7en. *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Surrey Joint AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 mUST AGREE WITH ABOVE. [uTHAT'S WHAT IS IN MY hpc, HUGE DIFFERENCE TO CAR. YOU CAN REALLY STEER THE CAR ON THE THROTTLE, GREAT TRACTION, AND LOTS OF FUN EXITING ROUNDABOUT'S. 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I don't think that an LSD will make the back any easier to control and could actually do the reverse. I disagree. On an open diff, during a slide, one (unloaded) wheel is spinning furiously and doing nothing to help you regain control. The other (loaded) wheel, is just freewheeling, and doing nothing to help you regain control..... An LSD will keep both wheels doing the same thing, so that they'll slide, and regain grip together. Throttle inputs will also have a much more noticeable effect, such that playing with the throttle will, when you're used to it, produce predictable, repeatable results. HOWEVER, you do need to learn how these things work. *Just* fitting one and driving like you have been hoping that the diff will sort it all out for you, won't work. I think a flat floor set up with someone like Freestyle will tune the car to your tastes better than fitting an LSD. I agree with that. It may be that the car has some inherent handling issue that a decent set up session will cure. I think an LSD is a worthwhile investment either way, though. I'm a little surprised that an R300 comes without an LSD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Fitting an LSD helped me enormously onthe track. It stabilised the car under turn in and during trail braking (I found trail braking natural and essential to get good times). The rear of the car felt planted! Of course the benefits out of the corners with a torquey motor are clear. You can also leave two black lines getting away at the lights! The best one to get is the ZF diff correctly set up and I would recommend Road and Race Transmissions - excellent service, they know LSD set ups for 7's very well (do all the race cars). The ZF is best for high power high torque use. The AP suretrac diff that you might find 2nd hand works well for less powerful 7's. I've not had experiece of other makes. On the road I would agree with the above. Get it set up right. Rake, CW, anti roll bar settings and front suspension can have an enormous effect. Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here My racing info site here Edited by - stevefoster on 7 Jul 2004 09:47:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I have a Quaife ATB in my 235bhp atmo Cossie car. Works exactly as expected.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain A Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 HI Adding a Quaife ATB to my 220 bhp duratech car has improved the drivability no end. Slides are much more controllable and I have noticed no additional understeer going into corners. Flat flooring and full suspension setting check is essential if you are to get the full benefits. So far I have only played on the road (oh yes and on Don Palmers course.. he he he). Will be gerring a full shakedown at Croft in a week or so. I don't know how the ATB compares to the ZF... I suspect that the ATB is easier to live with on a day to day basis, but the ZF will work better if the car is used hard,,,, but it will take more looking after. Highly recommended upgrade.. as long as everything else is set up properly. One of the Duratectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted July 7, 2004 Support Team Share Posted July 7, 2004 I have edited my post above to remove the obviously incorrect view that an LSD would not necessarily make the back end easier to catch. I thought I had read this in previous threads and a quick search revealed that some people thought that an LSD could result in quicker transition to oversteer and tricky handling if wheels were on different surfaces (e.g. wet leaves, ice, etc.). I think that the upshot is it would be "different" and at the limit this could cause you a problem. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedazzled Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I've got an R300 and I had an LSD fitted as an upgrade when the car was about 6 months old, so I can comment on what it is like with and without one. The LSD makes a massive difference to the traction coming out of slow corners and round-abouts. You really can feel a big difference when you are pushing on. The rear of the car grips much better and as a result you get better acceleration out of the corner. The trade off seems to be that when the back end eventually does lose grip, it's a bit less progressive. Overall the car handles *much* better with an LSD, plus you can do doughnuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I share Beddazzled's view of the biggest difference being to traction. I recently switched from a Graduate spec 7 to a Fisher Fury with LSD (and more power/less weight), and the traction was just enormous compared to my 7. Oversteery moments seem equally controllable, but then the spec of the cars are hugely different, so there are loads of factors other than the diff that would affect the progressiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 thank you to everyone for filling in some big gaps in my knowledge and my bank manager is soon to be in tears then! 😬 ZF sounds like the one for me. will have to contact Road and Race Transmissions next. When the ££ is available. Driving tuition is on the list but PeeWee (Pete W) is helping a lot with this. many thanks *thumbup* *thumbup* Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 The ZF (plate type diff) is quite noisy and may need adjusting from time to time. Having said that, I'm very happy with mine (although I get paranoid about the noise every now and then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 me too. I am not alone then. the grunts and wines are very diconcerting 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 The AP and Quaife torque biasing type are near silent compared to the ZF plate type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Can anyone point me in the direction of an url for Road and Race Transmissions? ta for all the advice. Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian.v Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Quaife ATB unit gives no noise and just does what it says on the box-which is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Sorry to butt in, however if any of you diff experts wouldn't mind looking at the thread i've just started i would much appreciate it. Once again, sorry to interrupt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 (Hijack) how do you know which LSD you have? (Hijack over) David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Road and Race 01959 525105 The Bullock Shed, Filston Farm, Filston Lane, Shoreham, Sevenoaks, Kent TN14 5JU For which LSD is which or if you have one at all you can tell some of these things by looking in the holes with the halfshaft removed. Do a search. This has been discussed before. Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here My racing info site here Edited by - stevefoster on 8 Jul 2004 06:40:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 thanks Steve for the address Zak www.zak7.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongomania Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 What is a rough price for a LSD? Seven-Ecstasy.co.uk How's My Driving? Call 1800-BITE-ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipeliner Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Cost me about £430 for my old diff (de dion) to be re-built as a LSD by Quaiffe i(ATB unit)...also replace all seals and bearings etc.... It took them almost a month to do it though, but i guess they have many bigger and more important customers than me. It works wonders and does exactly what it is mean to do - efficiently and reliably all day long...so i am pleased with it. Totally changed the characteristics of my car...probably the best investment i have ever made to my car in terms if £/(performance improvement) terms. Go for it amnd i would certainly go for a Quaiffe ATB unit again. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Not much discussion here about diff types though... I'm no expert on LSDs, but there has been a fair amount of discussion at one of my local meets about plate vs. the rest - and in particular, what happens when you hit curbs and so on, on the track. Something to do with the shock to the diff of a wheel completely unloading (as it bounces into the air) and then abruptly reloading on impact. Can't remember which type of diff allegedly could cope with this, and which would be at risk. If V7's watching, perhaps he can comment.... Keep BC free and open for ALL. Membership No. 43xx Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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