TomB Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Every now and again (eg Outlon Park other week & after an hour on the motorway yesterday), my coolant reservior overflow & coolant escapes from the cap. The car is a 1.4k with a heater & big rad. The temperature appears normal, there is no milky gunk in the coolant & performance seems normal. There is no coolant along the head gasket. At Oulton, some air was bled out from the rad & I did the same on Saturday. Yesterday after my motorway run, I beld more out. It seems that air may be getting in the coolant system somewhere. My gut feeling is that the reservoir pressure cap may be dodgy - it is the secind one I have had on the car in 2 years. Anyone think this is likely & that the pressure release properties of the cap are goosed? I am thinking of remvoing the heater soon, so next time I do th coolant, the reservoir & rad will be the highest point of the system. I am always a touch nervous about the coolant system as I am scared of H/G failure!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James B. Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 All your symptoms sound very similar to mine but don't be too eager to take the CH off as I did and found nothing wrong. If you take your cap to a Rover dealer they will check it out to see if it's ok and if you need a knew one get them to check it because about 35% of them don't work properly. If that's ok then get a pressure test done on your header tank, this only takes a minute and will tell you if there is a leak in the system. Best of luck, James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted July 5, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted July 5, 2004 And speak to Bricol about a bleed T - well worth fitting one whilst the systems empty Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy the 7th Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Tom Mine was OK for normal driving up to 6k and was ok on journies over 100 miles at 'sensible' revs. BUT as soon as I gave it 'LARGE' 7k+ it spewed coolant out everywhere I think you'll find, same as Nick Woods & Myself that what ever you do to 'fix' it - it won't go away 🙆🏻. See Nicks post "Why does my engine keep overheating" or something similar We apparantly changed everything on the cooling system and the header tank kept filling up & spirting coolant over the engine 🙆🏻. James - you say you changed your HG and 'nothing' was wrong with it. Does your coolant overpressurise now?? If it doesn't I suspect that your HG was damaged similarly to mine. ie NO physical deteriation of the gasket but on number 1 cylinder there was a darker patch a couple of cm long on the steel compressable ring on one side (where pressuried gas was fored out into the coolant during the 'compression' stroke'. Whereas on the other three cylinders there was a clean shiny continuous ring on both sides of the gasket. Hope I'm wrong but that's just my twopenneth rog C7 TNT (Honda Irish Green and Peugeot Graphite grey - it's dynamite) http://www.seven-ecstasy.co.uk/html/stoneleigh04_64.html Edited by - roger heeley on 6 Jul 2004 08:23:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hughes Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Tom Is the pressure tank high enough above the radiator ? Sounds like the air in the pressure tank is migrating into the rad and the coolant into the pressure tank. Just a thought though I'm not all that familiar with these new fangled high tech motors *smile* John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 John, I hadnt thought of that! New cap & coolant bought today, so I think I'll wip out the heater, change the coolant & cap & see if I can bleed it properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englishmaninwales Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Tom Have you had your coolant tested for combustion gases? Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 As roger has said, we had identical problems with our cars, even down to signs of water ingress into No 1 cylinder. My thread is here By all means change the cap and also get the cooling system pressure tested, however your symptoms are exactly the same as mine - 'air' would get in the rad after a decent blat and if I bled it out the coolant level in the expansion tank returned to normal. This 'air' has to be coming from somewhere and in the absence of any leaks it can ony be from the HG. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news (and I'm sure Roger is too) but i would say its 99% likely that you have a head gasket failure. BTW I had four seperate coolant analyses (aka block tests) done on my car and it only failed one of them, I supect this is because the problem only showed itself after a decent run. The head was eventually removed when there was literally nothing else left to check Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Edited by - Nick Woods on 6 Jul 2004 21:25:21 Edited by - Nick Woods on 6 Jul 2004 21:26:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Tin Man Posted July 6, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted July 6, 2004 Tom, I have had the same problem after fitting a new head gasket. I removed the head again this weekend & checked the liner heights. No 4 Liner was below the level of the block. This is probably what is causing the over pressurizing of my system. Should have checked the liner heights the first time If you do remove the head check the liner heights they should be 4 thou proud of the block. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James B. Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Roger, yes it was still doing it although not in the quantities you experienced, I only ever lost about a dessert spoonfull and then only if I went over 6500 rpm (1.6 VX) One of our members suggested that I lowered the coolant level an inch below the water line and that seems to have done the trick. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 Gents, your not helping! Im scared of H/G failure!! There is no slime in the coolant & the car performs normally. Surely something as important as H/G failure would produce one of these effects?? How do I go about checking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Not in the cases of Roger or ?Nick though Tom. Sounds very similar to their failures, however, I would go along the cap / coolant test etc route first, as it is easier / cheaper to do first before having to remover the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Second the above, HGs on Ks often do not go all in one go, they spend a while "oh it's a bit prone to getting airlocks in the coolant" before the inevitable happens. This is what mine was doing and why I got it cheap. Do all the diagnostics, obviously, but I suspect you will end up with the HG. Top tip - with the head off, take the opportunity to get verniers fitted so you can properly time the cams after head skimming, parts cost £130, good upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 top tip indeed ! - I had verniers fitted at the same time and the difference is astonishing. Tom - my car never overheated, never produced 'slime' or 'mayonnaise', never had any obvious signs of a leak (except whenI damaged the thermostat housing after all these sysptoms started) , passed a cooling system pressure test and passed 3 out of 4 coolant tests, yet there were still signs of water entry when the head came off. This doesnt fit the 'normal' pattern of HG failure (oil in water etc) but is obviously a mode of failure that the K-series can display. Its very frustrating until you get to the point where you realise there is nothing else it can be and then get it fixed Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Edited by - Nick Woods on 7 Jul 2004 08:44:40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 I have spoken to CC, Redline & James Whiting today, and the first thing they all said was dont panic & take the head off! They all suggested it sounded like an airlock in the heater - I am going to remove it anyway as I never use it. I'll change the coolant cap at the same time & see what happens. Either I am being optimistic or buring my head in the sand! I already have verniers. Will I need to re-set them if the head comes off? having to take the head off may bring a 1.8 conversion nearer!!! But then Ive got no money atm, so thats a big concern. Ive got a gasket from DVA, so realistically, is it something I can do or is it a garage job. Scared. ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I noticed a little coolant residue around my cap yesterday evening but I think it is due to having slightly overfilled the system. Possible that it could be due to a little trapped air in the heater since the system was only plumbed in last Saturday..though bled thoroughly!! Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James B. Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Why would air in the system cause coolant to overflow from the expansion tank 🤔 James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 IMHO It wont.... at least not to the amount that Tom is seeing. This is going exactly the way that mine did - I disconnected the heater, fitted a bleed tee, replaced all the hoses, checked for leaks and it made no difference at all. Tom - I'd love to be able to say that its not your HG but it does sound awfully like mine (and Rogers, and Peter Duce's) Try this : run the engine quite hard and then let it cool right down , ideally overnight. Gently undo the expansion tank cap and if the level starts to rise or air starts to escape, do it up again quickly before too much gas or coolant gets out Then undo the bleed screw in the rad and let all the gas out, then do the screw up again and remove the expansion tank cap. After I did this the coolant level was back to normal, providing it hadnt boiled over beforehand so that the overal level was lower. (this is tricky because you need to run it hard enough to generate gas from the HG leak but not so much that it boils over) The gas has to have come from the HG, if it was air replacing a leak then the overall coolant level would be low. If it was an air bubble in the system it wouldnt keep boiling over, it may do it once but not repeatedly. Read my thread (link on page one of this thread) if you want all the gory details about mine (and Rogers) Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Edited by - Nick Woods on 7 Jul 2004 22:44:40 Edited by - Nick Woods on 7 Jul 2004 22:45:46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Tin Man Posted July 7, 2004 Area Representative Share Posted July 7, 2004 Tom, I did my first ever HG when mine went. The Haynes manual is very good. I sent the head to DVA for Stripping skimming & reassembly. You will not need to re-time the cams if you make a note of the position of the timing marks at 90 deg BTDC You will need a special female torx socket (Halfords)for the head bolts, gasket set, and new bolts head would be a good idea. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I have to confess that I wimped out and paid someone else to do mine for me. I'd recommend getting the head tested for flatness, porosity and hardness - Scholar can do this and i'm sure there are others who can too (Scholar are not far from where i live). You should also check (or get checked) the liner heights in the block, DVA says they should be between 2-5 thou and all at more or less the same height. The latest Rover head gasket is reckoned by Scholar to be very good and can deal with a wider range of liner issues than the earlier ones. Scholar told me they now use the Rover gasket instead of the Satur one (although I'm entirely at their mercy on this one as its not a subject I'm familiar with) Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport visit Carrotland.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Well Ive decided Im not going to suddenly rush to take the head off. Ive removes the heater tonight, fit a bleed tee & will replace the stat & see how it goes. It may be a air lock, it may be the H/G, but Id rather explore the simpler option first. Fingers crossed!! Thing is, if the head has to come off & be stripped/ skimmed, while it is all out & could fit a 1.8 block into the car!!! Every cloud etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James B. Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 When ever this particular topic comes up quite a number of postings suggest that air in the system could be causing the problem, can someone explain to me why air in the system should result in loss of coolant, even if only in small amounts. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Because the air in the system is trapped within the water and when the gas expands if forces the level of the fluid up in the expansion tank. Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Tom sorry to hear that you are having problems with the coolent I thought that when we bleed it at oulton it would be ok, is the alternator staying in place? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 Hi Simon, alts fine thanks, although I have removed & loc-tited all the bolts since, so hopefully that wont happen again! Im still hopefull its an airlock - time will tell!! I am less scared about taking the head off now, it will be an adventure...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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