Violet Elizabeth Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Provisionally booked into Arch in September for the chassis mods for my planned Yamaha R1 engined Caterham. Trouble is we have no idea what mods are required. What would people suggest ? Get the engine dimensions and measure ? Try to mock up the engine (cardboard ?) ? Or just bite the bullet and buy the engine and have a play ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Option 3 for me. Angle grinders and blue nosed glue guns at dawn. Oh happy sound - tsk, tsk, bzzt, bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinfourth Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Buy the engine as if you get anything wrong you will be kicking your own butt for ages. Sod the heater wheres my shades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Definately get engine first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Yup, buy the engine, dangle it in roughly the right place and try to see what works. Alternatively, make a full 3D CAD model of the chassis, buy the engine, made a 3D CAD model of the engine, and play car building in cyberspace. Personally I'd tend towards the latter as although it's a faff, it does mean that you can get all the prop angles optimised. Probably overkill though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 p.s. If you're not using a mechanical reverse box and having a prop with a centre bearing, getting Arch to put some brackets for the centre bearing in the right place could also be handy. You can get the centre bearings from Bailey Morris (they're not pricey, but if you send them back when you order the prop they'll give you a modest discount) and the one to use IMHO is the newer style Transit bearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Interesting project. Will you dry sump it? Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted July 2, 2004 Author Share Posted July 2, 2004 Engine first it is then Thanks. Not planning on dry sumping, just a baffled sump and widget on the oil pressure relief valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Where abouts are you Nodger. You are welcome to take some pics / measurements from my R1 engined Phoenix. You could probably get Arch to adapt one of ST cradles so that you just hang the engine in the bay. I've had my car on track with sticky tyres and lots of abuse only got an all bikes windage plate and never any sign of oil surge. Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I didn't think there was a dry sump available for the R1, off the shelf, yet, anyhoo ?? Correct me if I'm wrong ... But as Jim points out; they appear to do fine with baffles. Pear shaped Edited by - Peardrop on 2 Jul 2004 10:06:03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molecular-Bob Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Look Here http://sports.racer.net/ and look at the engines page, then yamaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Coo. Interesting Pear shaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted July 3, 2004 Author Share Posted July 3, 2004 Despite searching, cannot find the Beasley dry sump thingy anywhere, assume it is a US bit of kit. Phoenix - am near Dorking. Thinking of getting a 2004 R1, so unless you have one of these the measurements may not fit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 If I was you Id get the engine. Decide exactly what you want to do about the reverser (I'd use a nova one to keep as near FB spec) Talk to Bruce about Prop Angles (but there may be only so much you can do) Consider having a removable side panel (as it will make having the Zorst fabrication cheaper and avoid having to remove the engine again) Have the engine built in at arch. I'm not sure its the right choice to go 04 R1 I'd use the 02/03? GSXR. The gear ratios are good, they make great power and you can get a Dry Sump and Prop Coupling from Nova. They are a proven unit. Just my 2p Steve See My Caterham Fireblade Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 An '04 R1 would be very expensive and no-one yet knows if they will work without a dry sump. Don't think I'd want to be the one to find out. The gixxer lump would be a very good alternative especially now you can get a dry sump for it. On the reverser you'll find no consensus. If I was starting from scratch I'd go for an electric reverse if I could get a Blackbird Motorsport-style "press a button and go backwards" solution. The weight savings are marginal though but I'd do it to remove a potential failure point from the drivetrain. Nova reversers can fail - mine just did. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 ... you can get a Dry Sump and Prop Coupling from Nova. Should just point out that Nova produce a prop coupling for the R1. Pear shaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Nova reversers can fail - mine just did. Was that with the old style chain? Or something entirely different As Nick Addison found out; they've recently respecified the chain because of the possibility of failure (although you probably already knew that ). Pear shaped Edited by - Peardrop on 4 Jul 2004 09:25:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 Hmmm, the GSXR is not one I had considered. It is quite a "tall" lump though, as opposed to the '04 R1's tilted over look. Wonder if it will fit under the bonnet ? Guess dry sumping would help that. Damn, more things to think about Was think about not putting a reverser in, and then seeing how it goes. Chris from Z-cars reckons that none of the mech reversers are reliable. Wonder if an electric one would be retro-fittable in the case I find I need it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Noger: an electrical reverse would be retro fittable - have a word with the kit car workshop. You don't need a reverser (unless you plan to race it) and I considered not fixing mine. But I decided that it would be a major pita to live without it especially in the public car park at the ring on a busy day. Peardrop: I don't know if the chain in my reverser was the old style or new style - they don't actually look that different to me. Both made by Regina. But it was a cracked roller that caused the problem leading to a totally jammed selector (in forward luckily). I have a theory, not based on any particular engineering knowledge, that the lack of a tensioner on the chain allows it to flap about when not under load (ie going forwards) causing rollers to strike sprocket and eventually crack. I'll tell you in a few thousand miles if the new one lasts longer than the original. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted July 4, 2004 Share Posted July 4, 2004 Noger: I too am tossing up between the 'blade and the gixxer. Each has its own merits. > If you ever do make your mind up do you mind if I drop in (perhaps I could lend a hand); you're not too far away from me. Maybe I can learn from your mistakes Martin: you've obviously seen Nick's page; it's 'cos of the rollers that they changed the spec of chain. I'll be interested to hear how it holds up Pear shaped Edited by - Peardrop on 4 Jul 2004 21:15:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted July 4, 2004 Author Share Posted July 4, 2004 Have discounted the blade - I like to be different ). R1 doesn't need the dry sump, but then having the dry sump could may be an advantage for fitting purposes. Bit more bhp out of the gixxer. Hmmmm. It will probably come down to what engine I can get a decent price. Have to make a decision sometime ! You are more than welcome to come over. Edited by - Noger on 4 Jul 2004 19:02:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Yes, please do something different. R1 or gixxer would be perfect. Then we can all learn from your "development experience" Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Be sure to check the tilt of the engine, apparantly it's quite fundamental with the R1 (carb efficiency I believe). And if you haven't got a copy of the R1 manuals (pdf) a can email them through. Graeme. ________________________________________________________ graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport graeme@fluke-motorsport.co.uk / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey UC Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Its probably a stupid idea, but if you were to reverse the feed into the starter motor while in gear, would this not provide a reverse ???? If only used sparingly. (Its not just my stupid idea, we were all talking about it at the Oxford meet last month. well o.k. two of us were) Mikey UC Edited by - Mikey UdaleClarke on 5 Jul 2004 14:25:54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Not too sure if engines are meant to run backwards :) ________________________________________________________ graeme finlayson / tyre warmer / fluke motorsport graeme@fluke-motorsport.co.uk / www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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