Phil Bishop Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Your SVA inspectors in NI must have a few cousins working at customs. See: http://www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=23483 I suppose over there you're like us in the SE with loads of tractors running around with six foot long forks sticking out the front - and we're poking silicon around the screws on our lights in case they scratch someone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Take them to court for the expense of taking the car to GB for a test. Better still sue the individual inspector. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 My R300 had SVA approval but I could not register it as the DVLA insisted it was a "kit" and wanted to give it a "Q" plate In the end had to get Caterham to sort it all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 We are classed as British citizens being resident in the Uk and British Isles But N.Ireland is not part of Britian Our cars cary GB plates we are goverened by British law we pay taxes to HMG. If you live in N.I. you have the privelage of calling yourself British or Irish, since the southern government claim jurastiction over the whole Island, You can carry two passports one British [the Red one] one Irish [ the Green one] It really all depends on your politics and religion :-)))))))) AND ON THIS FORUM WE AIN'T GOING THERE 😬 jj N.I. L7C AO.For my sins Membership No.3927. Se7en Services N.I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Paul, My opinion FWIW is that the tester in NI is interpreting the rules in his own way. This should not be possible if the rules are properly drafted and the tester is properly trained. Not wishing to offend you, the statement whilst in essence should be true, could not be further from the truth. They all work from a manual, and the interpretation of the rules is down to the individual tester. This is wrong, but how it is. This happens on the mainland too ❗ I know of kit builders who have taken a car to SVA and passed, and take a second car (same spec etc) for a test, and have had a fail form the SAME tester for something that passed on the first car. Explain that one. JB/JJ/NI Badgervens sorry that you have to put up with the worst of the SVA testers it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Martin, Ain't that what I said Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Sort of Paul - I think the rules are properly drafted, it is just a case of interpretation by the testers - rightly or wrongly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harold Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I must be wrong but I can't help thinking of a similar situation In my previous job [now retired] . Any dispute on specification Test engineer/ Inspector V shop floor ,would be passed up the chain to the chief Inspector /Q/C Manager,who was the last word.approved by ARB The SVA inspector must have a boss/manager up the chain approved by ? Silly queston but is possible to refer "up the chain"keeping cool at the same time . soft soap etc .I survived SVA despite attempt to fail my little one Wish you all the best please report back your result GOOD LUCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Progress report as of 12/05/04. Retested this morning... all passed except lambda failed big time. Last night myself & JJ, with the assistance of Arnie, setup the TPS to 0.43V @ c800rpm idle on hot running, & sealed manifold collector for air leaks. Engine idled nicely (except for excessive piston slap on No.4 cyl *eek* *eek* *eek* - new R300 engine!). No spitting back on TB's, no exhaust pops... just cleanly. Johny B took it for a test drive... came back beaming re. car performance. Reported no spit backs on light or heavy throttle from Tb's, no exhaust explosions on overrun, clean pick up etc. All in all we thought we were damn close. 1st test this morning was the emissions - car tested hot. Hydrocarbons acceptable, Co2 acceptable.............................. Lambda off the scale (9.99). How can this be possible? The tester also reported the primaries were begining to glow *eek* @ fast idle emissions test as the eng was held for a good few minutes as the tester attempted to reread all readings over & over again. Possible exhaust cam retarded 1 tooth guys?? Or TPS in completely wrong load ignition site at the given rpm?. Guys... were at a loss here. SV R300 (by virtue of spec not price) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Johnty, When you say Lambda off the scale I am confused. Stoic would give 14.7:1 AFR, or Lambda 1. If you are above 14.7 the engine runs lean - wont idle smoothly, and below about 12:1 you'll be able to see its running v rich. So if the Lambda is off the scale, are you sure its running fine??? Fat Arn Slay the K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinfourth Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 Is the lamba know good? Blatting round aberdeen wondering wether to buy a jumper or heater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 12, 2004 Author Share Posted May 12, 2004 We are going to try and contact the SVA centre to-morrow as once again they failed to provide us with print outs of their reading for us to study. It would appear from the owners report to us that we have an impossible situation, We have a car which starts on the button and runs cleanly up to temperature the idle backing off naturally as temps rise. Pick up is faultless car pulls like a train never pops or bangs nor does it spit back In other words it runs and performs perfectly and goes like **** of a shovel to boot. When put on government test rig HC is absolutley spot on as is CO2 could'nt be better BUT Lambda is they claim off the scale at 9.99 Permissible limits are .9 to 1.9 and if it was perfect would be 1.0 these readings are in anybodys book impossible but that's what they get ........ Any Ideas ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Primarys starting to glow!! OMG! Erm, dont suppose the cam timing could be out? If its on std pully I cant see how this could happen. Where do you have the lambda? In the 4th primary or in the collector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Who's lambda are we talking about, the test centres? If lambda was really 9.99 then the engine would not be running at all. Do the guys running the test know what they are talking about, lambda of 9.99 is a joke. Do they mean AFR of 9.99 perhaps? How are they measuring it, a probe up the exhaust tail pipe or what? Could it be air leakage back up the large bore silencer exit contaminating the probe? Can you plug a laptop into the MBE and display lambda on the screen? I can with mine. Could you show the tester that live lambda is reading correctly and it must be their machine that's FU'd? I wouldn't be too concerned about glowing primaries, this is a very unusual running regime, fast tickover for a long time with no air flow and in a dark room too. You might find that many engines would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Shurvinton Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 An innovate research wideband meter (good prices to se7eners everywhere: rentals available) is on recorded delivery to NI as we speak. This can be shoved in the bung in the collector to at least see what is going in to the cat. It will also see if there is a significant imbalance between the 4 pots. Fingers crossed this will shed some light on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 13, 2004 Author Share Posted May 13, 2004 Thanks Bill we will get to bottom of this and yes to answeranother querie it's the test centres lamda They have a large screen with three guages labelled lambda CO2 and Hydrocarbons its the one labelled Lambda that is reading 9.99 which is it's max reading so they claim its off scale so could be higher than that I have a feeling thaty although they call it Lambda it is in fact AFR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 If AFR the desired reading would however be higher - around 14:1..... Let us know what Bills probe gives - I think there will be an interesting outcome..... Fat Arn Slay the K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 Sort of off topic but there were 4 measurements taken at my local MoT station. CO2, Hydrocarbons and Lambda/AFR as indicated here. I can't remember the 4th. Any ideas? Anyway, back on topic, at tickover V7 sees them all green (pass) although some invariably go red as I get to the other rpm they measure at. Had to tweek the ignition timing (advance by 15 degrees) to get it to pass last year but I reckon the cam timing was way out. Could you be facing the same? Sounds not as you say it drives well, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 They test at 2500/3000 rpm for CO% limit 0.3 , HC ppm 200 limit and lambda 0.97/1.03. Then there is a test for CO% at idle 450/1500 rpm limit is 0.50. My new car was SVA`d at Taunton on the 1st April 2004, the very helpfull tester allowed me to adjust my fuelling during the test using my Laptop connected to the Emerald, I was getting sleepless nights before the test turned out to be a doddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 The SVA manual I've got says (summarised): No visible smoke CO (not CO2 Nige) less than 0.5% HC less than 0.12% Lambda between 0.97 and 1.03% I've got this as .pdf if that will help our friends over the water. Lambda is defined in the doc as air to fuel ratio divided by 14.7 so to get lambda of 9.99 means 146:1 air to fuel. This is impossible, the engine wouldn't run, their equiment is f***ed and they shouldn't be in their jobs if they can't immediately see this from the reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 Query???? If the test centres lambda probe was not far enough up the tail pipe and one must admit it is difficult on an R300 and since the tail pipe is a wide as a W****s T***t is there a possibility that their probe is sucking in air and this is what is giving the huge Air To Fuel ratio. 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 jj N.I. L7C AO.For my sins Membership No.3927. Se7en Services N.I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 14, 2004 Author Share Posted May 14, 2004 I think if I had read carefully Chelspeed's post I might have had this idea earlier. jj N.I. L7C AO.For my sins Membership No.3927. Se7en Services N.I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Nige - I've got my recent MOT emissions report here (1.6k with cat). CO level: 0.0% (damn, how am I supposed to gas myself now? ) HC: 17ppm CO2: 14.64% O2: 0.49% (tester said this was very good - the engine is using up virtually all of the O2) Lambda: 1.02 This was all at normal idle speeds (i.e. 800-900 rpm). Keep BC free and open for ALL. Membership No. 43xx Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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