Apollo non-return valve?

[John Henderson]

Just fitted the Apollo tank on my R300 build, and I met someone at Stoneleigh who had fitted a small (non-return) valve into the small pipe from the camcover that fits into the top of the Apollo. He said that this ensured there was always oil pressure on start-up, whereas usually there isn't when an Apollo tank is fitted.

 

How ipmortant is this and should I fit one??

 

Thanks.

 

 

[Peter Carmichael]

First recorded use of such a valve was by me, and to be honest it is hardly worth the effort. The engine survives starting and idling very well just with residual oil. With the valve fitted, pressure is slower to recover after oil surge events, so it is swings and roundabouts. A better solution would be valve that switches fully open when the engine is running and closes when the engine is off.

[John Henderson]

Thanks Peter, I'll save my £45 or whatever, and the hassle of cutting into the pipe.........

 

John

[Pierre Gillet]

I can say that it is very good for ones nerves to see the low pressure (20 psi) warning light switched off immediately after cranking.

On the Bugatti (warm ) track I had on Sunday with the Appolo, non return valve, Laminova and Motul 300 V 5W4O a steady 3,5 bars at 90 °C.

 

Pierre

[Nifty]

Just fitted an Apollo myself and was thinking of going down this route.

However, from what's been said here and other's comments it would appear not be worth the hassle/expense.

 

However, I presume after long periods of no use it would be a good idea to crank the engine over without firing to get pressure up before starting.

Wonder how easy it would be to rig by electrics to allow this from the driving seat.

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬

[SLR No.77]

Just leave the engine immobilsed and crank it on the button until you get pressure.

[Peter Carmichael]

Without taking the spark plugs out to remove the pressurisation, cranking is minimally different to idling as far as the bearings are concerned.

 

Sahf London;

every 1st Wednesday from 19:30 at The Duck just around the corner from Clapham Junction station

[Nifty]

Peter,

 

I assumed that starter cranks the engine at a lower speed than idle revs and therefore less damage potential.

Do you suggest I just get in and fire it up ( and don't pansy about worrying ..afterall the head gasket will be going soon anyway) or do you suggest cranking over with plugs out??

(I am referring to the first time after a long period of no use eg. after the winter layup.. not every day or weekend).

 

 

 

Stu,

 

I have no immobiliser on my car having removed the grossly overweight, non-functioning Vectra. "Immobilisation" is provided by a switchable circuit breaker in place of the ECU fuse, however, this does not allow the engine to be cranked unless reset..when the engine will fire up.

 

 

Perhaps I need to fit a decompression system like the old diesels used to have *tongue*

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬

[CHRIS CLARK]

I must have been the second person to fit one (after a conversation with Peter C). Now, I will have to disagree with the comment that it wasn't worth it. I hated the pressure gauge lag at start up. Not long I know, but it bugged me. Now it comes up immediately (ooh err). Helped a great deal when I cranked it over and the pressure wasn't there instantly on the gauge. Stopped it to look under the bonnet to find the Apollo fractured on a seam. Didn't fancy my chances of saving the Mobil 1 etc from flooding the garage floor/running the bearings if I had left it for the pressure to rise as in a normal set-up.

 

So, take your chance............................. I won't!

[Pierre Gillet]

Seconded.

And it is certainly not a hassle to install such valve . Actually it's a piece of cake after the Appolo/Laminova installation.

 

Pierre

 

Edited by - Pierre Gillet on 7 Jul 2004 20:26:19

[Nifty]

So where did you boys get your valves, what size does it need to be and does it just screw into one end of the pipe or does it need cutting to plumb it in??

 

Keep off the straight and narrow 😬

[prs]

Try 'Think Automotive' I got mine from them and they were extremly helpful, for piece of mind instant oil pressure is very reassuring I'm glad I fitted one.

 

Phil S7SVN

[Peter Carmichael]

There is a key difference in behaviour between the apollo's operation with and without the valve.

 

Without a valve, the restrictor presents a certain resistance to flow of oil exiting the tank to the cam cover. When air is present, it sees a much smaller resistance - the air whooshes out where the oil trickles. The simple restrictor is an excellent device for getting the air out quickly, but keeping the oil in.

 

With a valve, the spring loading in the valve tends to close off the opening when air is present. This means that the restriction to the exit of air is increased. It takes longer for the oil pressure to recover after oil surge as it takes longer to eliminate the air - this is evident from datalogs.

 

Ideally a solenoid valve could be used which operates with engine ignition - it would go fully open when the engine is running and fully closed when the engine is shut down - best of all worlds.