nickaddison Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 On the way back from work today the car made a horrendous grating/whining noise, which then went away again before I found somewhere to stop. This is the second time that this has happened (the first was about 150 miles ago just as I was approaching Andy Belcher's workshop for the get to know your 7 day) On both occassions the noise simply went away, and I didn't lose drive or gears at any point.... Both times I had my helmet on, which made not only identifying the noise difficult, but also where it was coming from! The first time I thought it was behind me, but now I'm pretty sure it's coming from the gearbox, or more likey the reverser. The sound is similar to the clattering that it has always done when reversing, but this time it's when going forwards! The only thing that I can think was common to both occurances was that I was slowing - the first time in traffic, today approaching a roundabout I'm not familiar with how the James Whiting reverser works - if it breaks will I just lose reverse or is that everything knackered? Or any other thoughts on what it might be? I'm supposed to be back at Llandow tomorrow and am wondering whether is safe to venture out (no trailering) ☹️ Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Walker Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Nick, You may need to change the chain in the reverser. Easier to explain if you telephone me - number in front of Low Flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted April 28, 2004 Author Share Posted April 28, 2004 Andrew and Paul - many thanks for the phone support 99% certain that it's the chain in the reverser - new chain on order, I'm going down to James' on Friday to do the work myself under his watchful eye and just in case it's not that when I have it in bits! Carolyn is even coming along to watch Will let you know how we get on - determined to make it to Stoneleigh in the car this year! Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Hi Nick - I am at Hullavington with 355's P4 on Friday, otherwise I would have caught up with you at James' - if you are still there after 5pm, drop in for a cup o' char! angus 'My First Race - SPA' pictures here 60,000miles in 3years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italjob Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Nick, Can you post some pic. of the jobs? Thanks. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Pics would be good if you can get them, please Peardrop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Nut Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Nick, Which chain have you ordered and where from? Thanks, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 James ordered the chain, so not sure what it is until I get there. Only thought later to ask for a stronger one, but by then I probably couldn't have got it for tomorrow. May end up upgrading later then once I know what I'm doing, if necessary Will take plenty of pics as I do it and put them up on the site after the weekend Was going to give you a shout Angus - we'll be going over in the morning so hopefully won't still be there at 5pm!!! You around on Monday? Looks like I'm going to get wet tomorrow ☹️ Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Day Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Blackbirdman had a similar problem at Spa 11 months ago. The chain rollers had fractured. The reverse gearbox was removed, stripped & a new heavy-duty chain made-up by a very enthuseastic local bike shop. Up & running again within the afternoon. I have a pic or 2 of the internals. Email me if you would like a copy. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ed Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 What a naff design, if the chain is in use when you're running forwards... At least with the Quaife reverse box, it is locked solid when in forwards gear, and in epicyclic gears only spring into life when you're going backwards. I've got electric reverse on mine.... I think the fact that Blackbird Motorsport moved to electric reverse says it all! Its a mod that can be applied to existing cars with a little engineering skill and is well worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morls Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 I push mine backwards 😳 Mark Look it's Mavis here and Jubilee 7 here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 Thanks Mick - Andrew and Paul said similar (in fact Paul said that Matt had lost drive - I haven't) I'll get to see the internals myself soon enough so should be OK without pics - that's why I'm going to do it over at James' rather than here! mr_ed - it's not actually in play when going forward, which is why the random clatter in normal driving has alerted me to something being wrong. Will know exactly what's going on tomorrow.... Having spoken to them at Llandow last weekend I think Brodie and co went to electric reversers as well Mark - so do I 😬 Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry.h Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Just to confirm that the chain only comes into play when reverse is selected. Otherwise it is just idling. I was told by Graham at Nova Racing (who make the units) that a batch of faulty chains was to blame for the failures. Mine had suffered similarly - had lost rollers through fracture - but was still working albeit noisily . Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I might junk mine and go Transit centre bearing and electric reverse. The Kit Car Workshop have an open day in a couple of weeks so I'll trunk at an install then. There seem to be sufficient mounting points for a good mounting/prop angle and the ability to revert back for when these become classics 😬 Anyone else done this? Steve See My Caterham Fireblade Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Id say it would be easy enough to make up a centre bearing prop mount coming off the existing reverse box mounts, thats what a lot of the Westfield BECs have done with great success. Someone on the Yahoo BEC list has dimensioned drawings etc for a prop mount to fit a Westie, so that could probably be adapted fairly easily even if it didnt fit directly, can't remeber his name off hand but Mr Ed might remember.... Chris Edited by - ChrisG on 30 Apr 2004 17:17:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Moomin posted the document mentioned above but he's not called Moomin on the BEC list ... it's in the files folder, anyhoo Peardrop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Well, back from James' safely with the car in fine fettle again (Andrew, it might take James 2 hours but took me 5! 😳) I had a right game getting everything out - if anyone has standard bolts in their propshaft change them for allen bolts as you can then get them out without the problems getting a spanner around the head in the confined space. That's what we put back in, so it should be easier if I ever need to undo it again Once we'd got the reverser out and on the bench and undid the drain plug our suspicions of the chain breaking up were confirmed - the oil had so many metal particles in it looked like mercury! The magnetic plug was full of iron filings and a few half rollers fell out too. Apparently the chains initially supplied to Nova had rolled links which crack if the point of a gear tooth is pushed directly against it when engaging the reverser - we've replaced it with a stronger one. Having seen inside it I now have a better understanding about how the reverser works, which I'll explain fully once I have had the photos developed tomorrow as it's always easier with pictures. Basically it drives straight through when going forwards but the chain does revolve as it is links the main shaft to a secondary gear that is just rotating freely. When reverse is engaged the castellated shaft opens up and the chain-driven extra gear kicks in, reversing the direction of the output shaft. Does that make sense? Anyway it explains why I got noise going forwards as the chain is always moving, if not always under load So in summary, the easiest way to check is by undoing the drain plug (and bunging something in it to stop all the oil coming out!) and if the plug is furry with iron filings you have a problem. Or a loud clattering when going forward that doesn't affect drive and then goes away is another symptom! Thanks for the helpful diagnoses and many thanks to James and Ruth for the use of the pit, plentiful tea and tasty pastry And of course to my pit assistant Carolyn! I kept the old chain and some of the broken links as another souvenir 😬 Oh yes, and Keith I'm jealous Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Edited by - nickaddison on 30 Apr 2004 20:47:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david nelson Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 glad to hear all is well see you tuesday david Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Echo the Socket heads, mind you I put Aerotights on the back of them so they are still a bastard Can you post me your pictures or stick them on your site Nick? Really like to have a look. How long was the chain? I suspect fairly short, would you get 2 or more out of a HD O ring Bike chain? Steve See My Caterham Fireblade Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted May 1, 2004 Author Share Posted May 1, 2004 Steve, the chain has 12 links/24 rollers in it so is about 30cm long Pics should hopefully be up later this afternoon.... Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 I have now added a Reverser Page to my site, with photos of the internals and hopefully a clearer explanation of how it works! Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Very helpful Nick, thanks. How is the gearbox engaged on your install? On my Blackbird there's a vacuum thingy with a "switch" under the dash. I'd been mistakenly believing it was a solenoid until it packed up. I've seen a Blackbird with a mechanical lever through to the centre console, which seems a less failure-prone solution. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickaddison Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 It's mechanical Martin - there's a stubby lever on the top of the transmission tunnel under the dash in front of the gear lever. Between the 2 is a toggle switch for the reversing light - it got through the SVA (the light is supposed to be automatic on putting the car in reverse) by fastening an elastic band around the toggle and reversing lever so that it pulled the switch when you shoved the stick 😳 There's a clearer pic of what the lever looks like on the Nova Racing site (follow the link on my reverser page). It is topped off with a screw-on black plastic ball Scream if you wanna go faster! Caterham FireBlade NJA509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Thanks for the link to Nova - they seem to have got their act together with a decent web site etc. Looks like all I need is the 10 quid lever to replace the stubby thing I have attached to the vacuum plunger whatnot Re reversing light - that problem was solved on mine by the simple expedient of not having one. Dunno if it is needed for SVA. Frankly I've got no idea how this Caterham-built car got through SVA for a variety of reasons. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 As it happens I just fitted a Nova gear lever in place of the vacuum actuator on my 'Bird. It worked for me because I have stripped out the interior. The end of the lever only protrudes about an inch through the ally tunnel cover, so it might be a bit short to work with the padded tunnel top. Fitting the lever was a bit of a faff as it is thicker than the original. I had to make up extra shims to stop it binding. BTW Graham Dyson informed me the box takes 142ml of lubricant, but what sort? Anybody know what is recommended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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