Blatman Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Are there any alternatives to these pumps. I'm on my 4th, and I don't plan on buying a 5th, unless it comes with a lifetime, moneyback, free repair, won't let you down the night before a sprint, guarantee........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Westie Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Blatman One idea I had was to put a return pipe on the carbs with a restrictor. That way the pumps wouldn't be working against effectively a blocked pipe when idling or running slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 As some one suggested a few weeks ago Weber Alpha sell a suitable "lift pump" which I fitted in place of a Red Top. It was about £35 delivers 120 itres/hr at a nominal pressure of 2.5 - 4 psi. I have used it with a Purolator pressure regulator set a 3psi. The reason I changed pump was more to do with the 6.5psi of the Facet and the mounting, which a previous ownwer placed under the coil. The interference into the tacho was interesting! I have always found Facet pumps reliable but only if they are mounted vertically. If they are mounted horizontally they fail quite quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 So this begs the question, is a Red Top (with 6.5 psi and whatever number of litres per hour) overkill if the low pressure pump is simply feeding a swirl pot ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 15, 2001 Author Share Posted May 15, 2001 It's on carb's, (luddite!) so no swirl pot. 6.5psi is definitely too much pressure for my poor old Webbers. I run a (Malpassi?) Ali bowl Filter King regulator set to approx 3psi. Is FW's idea of a return pipe (to where FW?) with a restrictor, something that would helpquestion.gif Chris, what is a lift pumpquestion.gif Edited by - Blatman on 15 May 2001 12:28:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Actually I was also enquiring (in a somewhat obscure manner I'll grant you !!) whether I needed a Red Top pump to feed an injection swirl pot or whether a lower rated pump would suffice. I assumed (rightly or wrongly) that the lift pump that Chris referred to was the low pressure pump on an injected car with a swirl pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 All you care about is whether it can deliver enough fuel in lbs/hr or whatever units you like, pressure is irrelevant. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 The pump I bought was the low pressure pump from a Weber Alpha injection system. I agree that the only reason that pressure is important is because of Weber and Delorto carbs float valves don't seal correctly at 6.5psi. I would imagine that the Weber pump may be OK without a pressure regulator but I am too worried to experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 15, 2001 Author Share Posted May 15, 2001 I'm not palnning on ditching the pressure regulator whatever the nominal rating of whatever pump I try next. I'm not confused about flow vs pressure (I don't think.....), but I just plain can't do the maths to work out flow rates. Overloads my miniscule grasp of advanced mathematics. (I can only just about manage credit card billswink.gif) Does someone have an xl spreadsheet or a set of simple equations that I could learn from (if, in fact, conversion from pressure to flow is possible)question.gif And how do I establish what the right amount of flow should bequestion.gif It's not the simple "you should be using a xxxxxxxx pump 'cos they're the dogs" that I had hoped. Edited by - Blatman on 15 May 2001 21:08:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Whyman Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 FYI. In conversation with an experienced rally driver (London-Sydney et al) his comments on Facet pumps are that they work fine as long as they are mounted vertically and are used regularly, ie are active for a few minutes at least once a week, otherwise they sieze up. (He ran with two red spot competitions in tandem for 12,000 miles and didn't have any problems, and with an in line regulator for his twin 45 Webers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted May 15, 2001 Share Posted May 15, 2001 Blat w man. I think if you raid the archive section you'll see several threads in regard to 'Facet' pump failures!!!! Did the 'Cossie' stay together ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 16, 2001 Author Share Posted May 16, 2001 Hi Chris Yeah, despite my best efforts, the engine was/is great. My driving left something to be desired though, unlike Blatgirl, who inproved her time's with each run (dammit!!). I trust you had a good day at Brooklandsquestion.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 I assume from the last section that Mr Blat..........didn't!!! Oh well, can't win 'em all. Brooklands was the best weather so far. Fun had by all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted May 16, 2001 Share Posted May 16, 2001 The Demon Thieves catalogue lists suitable applications: Interruptor Red top - 35 gall/hr - 200+ bhp Silver top comp - 27 gall/hr - up to 200 bhp Silver top road - 18 gall/hr - up to 160 bhp Solid state Comp - 25 gall/hr Fast road - 18 gall/hr Road - 12 gall/hr From this you can make some guess what you need. Remember it's only under WOT conditions that you use all this fuel, you're rarely at WOT for more than a few 10's of secs at a time (even if you think you are!!) The float chamber or surge pot will give you a big margin if the fuel pump can't keep up for a few seconds with a transient WOT moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 16, 2001 Author Share Posted May 16, 2001 Chelspeed and I don't plan on buying a 5th I was looking for alternative manufacturers. From the flow figures you give, the only pump I can use is a red top. (200+bhp atmo cossie on 45's, no surge pot, no budget for injection, yetwink.gif) It's on my hillclimb/sprint car, which is double driven everywhere, so WOT is a very regular occurence, especially with standard ratios in my (soon to be changed for a long first, straight cut) type 9 box. Sorry if a sound a little "snippy". No offence is intended. I'm just miserable about the poxy fuel pump.sad.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 I don't do offence so no worries there... I was quoting the solid state pumps thinking that one of those may do you, but they didn't have bhp's and the interruptors did so I put them in for comparison. I didn't know what engine you had but with 200bhp I agree that's not appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartmoor7 Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 I ran a Red Top (vertically mounted, everyday use) on a standard Fiat X1/9 for about 60,000 miles and five years. Never missed a beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 Ah, the X1/9. Luverlee. Had mine for 2 years before graduating to the 'Esprit'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartmoor7 Posted May 17, 2001 Share Posted May 17, 2001 I really like mid-engined cars. If I had the money I'm afraid the 7 would be replaced by a 340R. Heresy!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 18, 2001 Share Posted May 18, 2001 It seems to be the last 2-3 years that the Facet ... top pump has lost it way on quality. So much so I had heard that they are designing a totally new pump... The 2 Weber pumps I know of are still working after Haggis and are quiet too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted May 19, 2001 Share Posted May 19, 2001 I bought my Weber pump from Aldon Automotive and they seem to think that the pump should be OK for up to 280BHP! My engine is only 160BHP so I can't confirm but it might be worth checking with Webcon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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