Red SLR Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Guys I need to make a decision on ECU type. I have tried to set up my Lumenition today and it is a waste of time. The guys at the Rolling Road recommended DTA. Any help please? It needs to be mapped somewhere near Manchester. I LIVE 300 MILES FROM EMERALD. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 MBE have a dealer in Manchester, and the 967 is much more compact than the DTA. The MBE software has a reputation of being awkward, I use Easimap 4 which is one release backward over V5 which is supposedly easier to use. I have had no porblems at al, with Easimap. The MBE unit is cheaper than DTA. Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Fast Reliable Vauxhall wink.gif See the R500 eater here See the Le Mans Trip Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 What's actually wrong with the Lumenition/GEMS? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 I would still say go the new "Emerald" route if you could get one!! It's very easy to play with and can be supplied with a suitable starter map! PS I live a long way from Japan, but still have a Sony video recorder. The Emerald is easier to programme than that!!!! Edited by - chris clark on 3 May 2001 20:58:44 Edited by - chris clark on 3 May 2001 21:01:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Simon, Are you South Manchester? I had my map tweaked today by a Lumenition dealer with a Rolling Road based in Congleton. Is that too far away? Got improvements aswell which is always nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 3, 2001 Author Share Posted May 3, 2001 Chris I am not in a very good mood at the moment, so I will just say I dont think I want to use Emerald. BTW QED said they would map it with a good map..... Paul - To be honnest the Lumenition system is not bad, but the guys at the Rolling Road had a really hard time using the Software. They have good experiance on Luminition but on the DOS version of the S/W. I have the new Win 98 version that has recently been released. The system seems very complicated, and I cant see how the car can run on it, as when the car is idling at say 1000rpm the map shows 120 on the load, well it should be at about 10 or less. The only way to cure this was to pressurise the vacum tube and then the load dropped. Captin C - I have e-mailed you. I am off to continue drining my bottle of JD. Simon. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave M Posted May 3, 2001 Share Posted May 3, 2001 Get a Motec! Does everything. Optional traction control, launch control, telemetry, logging, etc.... Link it to a Motec Dash and you have the best! You shouldn't have to travel 10,000miles to Oz to have it setup, I am sure they have guys over there. www.motec.com.au Dave PRB87(Aus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dent Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Simon, my 7 is up and running.Setting up was easy the base map works well enopugh to drive. Go the Emerald route. You dont have to go to Emerald to get it mapped, they are just the experts. Ill let you know the results from the RR session over the weekend. The base map was descibed as DTHTBs gas folwed head 1.8, or something like that. DTA is good kit, but external work needs to be done, why bother, go the plug and drive route. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Junking the ECU because the operator doens't know how to set it up is a bit drastic. You could have installation/setup problems with anybody's kit. Simon - you mention a vacuum tube. It sounds as though the ECU is using a MAP sensor to determine engine load - I was under the impression (perhaps wrong) that using manifold pressure to determine engine load doesn't work particularly well with throttle bodies. I would have thought that the ECU could be told to ignore the MAP sensor and map against the throttle pot only. Have you or the operator tried talking to QED or Lumenition? I wouldn't give up on it yet. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain chaos Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Andrew, Noted the time of your posting...don't you ever sleep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Andrew, Do you have two Se7ens? I was at the Seven Workshop yesterday and Roger King was working on your car which clearly was not up and running just yet, although it didn't look too far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 I agree with Mike. Can they not use their preferred DOS software on your ECU? Whilst plenty of vendors give over inflated claims on power gains etc., QED would get well and truly slated if they provided kit that didn't work like this. Unless the unit is faulty (and if it is, a working replacement one is likely to be OK) I'd also doubt that QED would give you your money back. So buying another ECU means money down the drain. If your hangover's not too bad (smile.gif), give QED a call and see if they can shed any light. Also ask them if they have any "known" mapping people in the North. And when you do get it running, be *very* conservative on your expectations for peak figures! C7 AJM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 I am booked into a Lumenition dealer RR on Tuesday. I have been promised by Lumenition that they can map it. Andy My current upgrade is for one reason only, I want TBs over the summer for a few more BHP and then over the winter I will take the car to about 190. The car is running 133Bhp at the moment, and I am expecting 150Bhp after its sesssion on the RR. I dont think 17bhp is to over optimistic. After the summer I will look at getting new Cams, pistons, crank, followers, valves and some head work. Thanks Simon. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 4, 2001 Author Share Posted May 4, 2001 PS thanks for the help Captin C! Simon. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Good luck Simon. Let us know how you get on. C7 AJM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 Bollocks to all of this electronic wizardry Simon. tonight you can release all of your frustration at the kart track. We're meeting at Pauls at 21.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 4, 2001 Share Posted May 4, 2001 I wanted to go the Emerald route but got hacked off with their total lack of ability to deliver. Always upgrading the SW or some other reason. Weeks turned to months etc etc. I have now got the Weber Alpha unit (yes I know I can't re-map it myself). It was delivered with some wrong cables but now sorted return of post. Very simple to fit and all the bits look the biz. Same price as all the others except it was totally designed to plug straight into my VXC set up. James W did all the engineering along with Weber. Some systems needed new coil packs and plug leads...unecessary and expensive! It will run for the first time tomorrow so I can let you know how it goes. The trusty MBE unit is re-connectable in a jiff if any probs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl S. Posted May 5, 2001 Share Posted May 5, 2001 You really should look into the Motec range of ECU's. Seeing as the Australian dollar is in the doldrums they should be rather price competitive (I do notice Motec advertisments in the UK car mags and a UK agent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 5, 2001 Author Share Posted May 5, 2001 Sticking with Lumenition for now. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dent Posted May 6, 2001 Share Posted May 6, 2001 Simon, just to give you an idea of the results I have seen going my route. Engine started as a development VHPD, which meant it has a steel bottom end, and standard VVC head. Have junked the induction in favour of Jenvey/Emerald. The head has been gas flowed and new valves are in. The results are as follows Power 217 bhp at 7700 rpm Torque 159 llft at 6000 rpm The curves are just as you would want them. THe engine was mapped at Emerald on Friday. We kept the standard injectors and cams. A top result, so well done Roger King. Drives like a dream, and goes like a scalded cat when provoked. Consumption from Hoddesdon to M62 was 32mpg at speeds between 80 and 110. No idea about track drinking habits. Ask me on Tuesday night. Stewart, you might have seen C7 not working, but when I spoke to Roger that evening, he told me the car was up and running, then I made my posting. And what is your interest in my duck for? Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 7, 2001 Author Share Posted May 7, 2001 Andrew, hopefully have the car back tomo avo, will let you know the power etc. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorAtle Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 Simon, is it a K? You mention 133bhp which may indicate a 1.6SS but then again you also mention a vaacum tube... Is the Luminition unit equal to GEMS? I have one and I must say it works like a dream. Very easy to program, and although the DOS version is a bit dated it does everything you want. Tor Atle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted May 9, 2001 Author Share Posted May 9, 2001 It is a K. It is SS spec. The MAP sensor has been turned off now. Should get the car back this afternoon. Will let you know what the result is! Simon. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 You should be able to run the GEMS MAP sensor to get a reading at startup to correct for atmospheric pressure. It does however mean that you can't start the car at the top of a mountain and drive down to the bottom without the mixture getting lean. Setups that have no pressure sensing are configured for the atmospheric pressure on the day it was tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted May 9, 2001 Share Posted May 9, 2001 The motec stuff looks very good indeed. If I was starting from scratch I wouldn't think twice. The data logging allows you to user configure the channels so you can log any parameter at a sample rate to suit what you are investigating. The logged engine parameters are read directly from the engine management so the engine temps that get logged are the ones that the ECU is using to control the fuelling. You obviously have all the sensors already on the car anyway, so installation will be a snap and will be cost effective. The throttle pot will allow throttle pedal position logging which is a hefty upgrade in Stackland. I need to upgrade to get throttle pot logging anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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