stevefoster Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I have a Redtop 15, 13Ah and 400Amp cold cranking. Had it over a yr and never had a problem with it, even when repeated start attempts were needed due to the ECU plug getting knocked out by a box stowed in the pass seat footwell / under the dash area. According to the manufacturers instructions you can use a normal batt charger with it for a limited period of time ~ a few hours is quoted. Longer can fry them as they are sealed. I have an auto off timer (2hrs) and usually pop her on charge the night before a blat or on the day of the blat. Also, I have only just fitted an Anderson style external jumper connector and short power cables to the batt to allow easy jump starts at trackside if necessary / connection of a charger more easily. However, wanting another gadget, I bought a trickle charger / batt conditioner and wonder how long it would be safe connect this for? If a normal charger is a few hours then a fair bit longer I guess. The plan was to use a weekly timer and have it coming on and off every other or every few days to maintain things. Any electrical guru's out there got a view? Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here My racing info site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Red top details here It says you can leave some kinds of chargers permanently connected. If your battery conditioner is a reputable one, Optimate or Race Tech for example, I would think you'll be OK. Otherwise check the paperwork with the charger and see what it says. I use an optimate and connect it for perhaps a day every couple of weeks, works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted March 14, 2004 Author Share Posted March 14, 2004 Thanks Chelspeed. I will put the trickle charger on the car for a day every week and monitor. In summer I'll revert to my use of batt charger for 2hrs. The Redtop itself never seems to need any current much. The batt charger backs off to very low current after just a few minutes: just measured them both: - 0.8amps on the charger and holding. - 0.1 amps on the trickle and will possibly drop more... It says 300mA on the tin. Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here My racing info site here Edited by - stevefoster on 14 Mar 2004 14:43:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I`m planning to use a battery conditioner on my Red Top. As far as I`m aware the idea is that you leave it connected when the car is not in use, it then keeps the battery in tip top condition by charging, then switching off until the battery losses charge by a certain amount, then it comes on again etc etc I think you can get a conditioner from Red Top or whoever manufactures them. Correct me if I`m wrong Have engine, diff, tacho, clutch and a sexy ultra lightweight flywheel.......need car I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted March 14, 2004 Author Share Posted March 14, 2004 You are not wrong Simon. I don't want the expense of one from DMS. I want to use the one I have but the Redtop 15 being much smaller than a big Banner has certain low current requirements. Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here My racing info site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I have an Accumate which is suitable for sealed, gel and conventional batteries (According to the box!). They are about £40, but should be suitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Steve, Its good practise to leave the battery conditioner permanently connnected. You can buy a conditioner which is exactly the same as the DMS just rebadged for £ 35 plus Vat from PowerVAMP 01934 643000. they also sell Hawker batteries at keen prices. I have just fitted a PC625 which is used on Jet ski`s and is a very robust battery £56 plus vat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I have been using also an Accumate http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=1131 , with satisfaction for my Banner, and plan to use it for my Hawker PC 545 Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taran Las Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I use a conditioner from Halfords on my SBS15. Leave it on for a couple of hours as the battery seems to require very little in top up charge. Philip. D. Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Steve Just to avoid any confusion out there. However, wanting another gadget, I bought a trickle charger / batt conditioner and wonder how long it would be safe connect this for? Please note there is no such animal as a trckle charger/battery conditioner. These are two different animals which differ,in simple terms, by the magnitude of the current they deliver while charging. A battery conditioner might deliver just 100mA at all times, which can be left on permanently. A trickle charger might be 3 times this so it can be left on for extended periods (a few days) but usually not longer. A full battery charger might deliver several amps and will cook a battery after about 24 hours. Chris 2003 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I thought the conditioners - such as Draper , Halfords and airflow were "intelligent" in that they control the charge so that the battery is always in tip top condition . Shirley leaving a condidtioner on for a few days at a time is defeating the object ?? Lotus 7 Club Speed Champion 2003 South Wales Area Organiser C7 TOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Dave Read my post, just above yours - it answers your question Chris 2003 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 It wasnt so much a question - I know what to do with a conditioner But there does appear to be some confusion from others . Lotus 7 Club Speed Champion 2003 South Wales Area Organiser C7 TOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 The real issue with any Red Top (or Odyssey for that matter) is that their technology means they have a very low internal resistance compared to regular car bateries. This means constant current chargers (like most car battery chargers) will basically overcharge it in fairly short order. Overcharge will lead to premature failure. The real solution is to simply charge it with a constant voltage charger instead (such as offered by DMS etc). This will deliver the current the battery "wants" rather than just "ramming through" a set number of amps. Derivates of Red Top used in standby applications are charged 24x7 using constant voltage chargers and have a life expectancy of well over 10 years ! Yes it will be more expensive than a £20 conditioner but at least there is no danger you will fry your expensive race battery....(and for the record, Red Top is not the same as Odyssey...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Red 2 comments: 1. The vast majority of the time any fitted battery will be charged from the car's alternator and that is definitely not a high-tech charger. It can be more likened to a standard car battery charger in this respect. Most standard car battery chargers are not constant current either as is easily evidenced by the rapid fall of charging current once charging is underway. ie: charging starts off at maybe 4-6 amps and drops to 1-2 amps after a few hours. An example of constant current charging is rechargeable Ni-Cads or similar where the current is constant for the whole charge time. 2. You are comparing "hi-tech" chargers to battery conditioners. This is not apples with apples. They have two different and distinct roles as I mentioed above. Chris 2003 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Can you charge these with those cheap solar panel chargers, or is this asking for trouble? Sorry about the thread hijack, but there seem to be some people who know what they are talking about 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Solar panels can be a good way of keeping a battery topped up if left for long periods akin to a battery conditioner in locations where power is unavailable. They aren't good as a charging mainstay. Chris 2003 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 What IS the difference between Redtop and Odyssey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Between Red Top 15 and Odyssee PC545, the main difference is the length which is shorter for the Odyssee. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 ChrisW, Oops, am relatively new to blatchat and must have inadvertently wandered into the wrong bit. Thought this was the part of the forum where people ask techie questions and other people reply with help. Genuinely didn't realise it was the "I think I know more about battery charging than anyone else and am intent on proving it and bollox to the original question" bit instead..... Just for the record, what would your answer to the question be ? And Pierre, yes you are correct but there are also significant differences other the physical dimensions..... Don't worry, I've already got my coat, and yes, I will close the door quietly behind me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris W Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Red Blatchat is an area where members express opinions and views. No-one has a monopoly on the right answer and there is rarely a "right answer" anyway but a range of answers usually all of which have a degree of "rightness". The result of this is that in most cases a definitive way to proceed emerges for the person's particular problem. The success of Blatchat is testimony to that. So if you care to read, you will discover I did indeed put my answer to the question. However, if I believe that what you, or anyone else, has stated contains some errors, IMHO, I am perfectly entitled to counter it. You in turn, or indeed anyone else, is perfectly entitled to shoot me down or agree or develop the debate further. But's it's a debate not a slanging match. What isn't done on Blatchat, except by social misfits like yourself, is deliberately insult, offend or antagonise other members. To what end? You're the one who ends up looking like a prick. A number of "hard core" contributors (amongst whom I would humbly count myself), who happen to have a relevant speciality in one particular area, spend a lot of time trying to help other members who don't happen to have that specialist knowledge. It's not a points scoring game - it's what a Club is all about - helping others with the same interest. So climb back in your pram, stop worrying about the size of your d*ck (someone has to have the smallest) and ponder on the eloquence of what was expressed so articulately by the Anglo Saxons, "Go F*ck Yourself". Chris 2003 1.8K SV 140hp see it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Still no-one has told me what the difference is between a red top and an odyssey. When I bought an odssey i was told they were the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Still no-one has told me what the difference is between a red top and an odyssey. When I bought an odssey i was told they were the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Odyssee PC545 Fits all current Harley Davidson, Buell, Honda GL1800 Gold Wing, current Moto Guzzi and VN1500 Kawasaki. Please check dimensions before ordering. Voltage 12v Cranking Current 545 Amps for 5 Seconds Cold Cranking 170Amps estimated Capacity at 20 hour rate 14Ah Reserve capacity 21 minutes Terminals M5 bolt Dimensions 178mm Long 86mm Wide 132mm High Weight 5.2Kg Price: £90.00 Red Top 15 12V 14 A.H M6 male 5.0 kg dimensions 200 77 140 400 A : Cranking Current 20ºC for 5 secs to 1.2V/Cell00A Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Have a look here for Odyssey info. Basically it is a drycell battery, whereas a Red Top has liquid electrolyte here Always a good idea to follow the manufacturers recommendations when it comes to charging IMHO 😬 BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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