MikeE Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Right I've now got an order in with CC for a kit built R400 minus engine, gearbox, bellhousing, exhaust and ECU plus SLR cage, race m/c, race spring/dampers etc and have my Flourescent paint job sorted as well (thanks for the help from the self proclaim (rotund) 'expert' 😳). I've also recieved a quote from Raceline for a full installation package for a 220bhp 2.0 litre or a 250bhp 2.3 litre (although I'm a little confused by this as the only difference is the increase in capacity, no additional head work or forged rods and pistons which I would have thought would be necessary for 250bhp?). So my question is should I go for the 2.0 or 2.3 litre engine? what are the pros and cons of each option (I know the 2.3 is slightly taller and will probably require a custom low-line cam cover). thanks, Mike. Edited by - MikeE on 11 Mar 2004 10:16:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Get the big 'un. You'll only regret it and want to upgrade if you get the titch ☹️. I don't think you'll downgrade from the big one Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Woods Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Talk to ammo at Raceco on 01394 383499 - he's been building 2.0 and 2.3 duratecs so he'll be able to give you some advice. I know of two sevens that are being converted by Ammo and Mark Hicks (at Anglia Sevens) - one is a 2.0 and the other is a 2.3 so you could always wait until they are finished and ask the respective owners what they think - one of them is Mark Hicks himself who is having the 2.3 - tel 0781 4477964 Nick Red and Black 1.6K supersport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcat Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Do you plan to race the car at some point ? Engine capacity can be a factor for class/eligibility, etc... regards fc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 But I would have thought both a 2.0 and a 2.3 would be in the same class.... unless the 2.0 is actually 1990cc or something in which case it may just squeeze into a lower class Still go for the bigun you know you want to 😬 Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I would be inclined to go with the 2.3L. I can't imagine the costs will be that different at this stage. When I last spoke to Pete McEwen, he felt that was going to be the better engine in the long term and it does, at least, avoid the early onset of upgradeitis. 😬 Brent Watching the sender of a threatening e-mail sent anonymously by a coward whose identity has now been discovered. Zetec 209 Reassuringly Expensive ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclucas Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I always thought upgradeitis was unlinked to what you currently had. Put your hand up if you're completely satisfied with your current 7 and don't want to upgrade. 😬 Go 2.3, you know you want to, and you'll regret it later. Care to enlighten us to the difference in quoted cost? N7CTR 1.8VVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Well I didn't say it would cure him of upgradeitis, just avoid the early onset. 😬 I hope I never stop wanting to upgrade.........only thing is I probably could have bought another car twice over with the dosh spent on mine. But I wouldn't have enjoyed it so much. Brent Watching the sender of a threatening e-mail sent anonymously by a coward whose identity has now been discovered. Zetec 209 Reassuringly Expensive ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 the difference in cost is..................... ...................... ...................... ....wait for it..............£240 Brent I've just realised what you're up to above, and if even I have noticed then I'm sure everyone else now knows who it was 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aclucas Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Umm, err, 30 horses for 240quid, sounds like bargain of the century. You'd be daft not to IMHO. N7CTR 1.8VVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Moi 🤔 I'm sure I don't know what you mean Mike 😬 Brent Watching the sender of a threatening e-mail sent anonymously by a coward whose identity has now been discovered. Zetec 209 Reassuringly Expensive ❗ Edited by - BRENT CHISWICK on 11 Mar 2004 14:06:55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prs Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I'd go for the 2.3 especially with that power gain/price ratio plus the additional torque you will get. Phil S7 SVN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Mike, Can I just say now that no matter how much I plead...... please, please do NOT take me for a ride in the finished car. It will only make me dissatisfied with my car and cost me a pile of dosh thus endangering my marriage, not to mention my genitals. So for the sake of human compassion, please take heed of my heartfelt plea. My future wellbeing is in your hands. 😳 Brent Watching the sender of a threatening e-mail sent anonymously by a coward whose identity has now been discovered. Zetec 209 Reassuringly Expensive ❗ Edited by - BRENT CHISWICK on 11 Mar 2004 14:49:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I am putting my hand up! I am completely happy with the power output of my car thank you and am making a few cosmetic , comfort and legal (heavens, whatever next?) improvements. 128bhp 1.4kss, that will do nicely for road use thank you. Brent, very clever. I worked it out just before I read Mike's post. Hope the dog wardening is going OK. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESOLVIWOLF Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 "Put your hand up if you're completely satisfied with your current 7 and don't want to upgrade" yep, one hand up here ... well at least in tersm of power. IMO unless your sprinting or doing quarter miles then any more than 230-ish in a caterham chassis for simple trackdays and leisure use is just plain daft in any case. Having said that.... my av equipment isnt finished yet. Thats where the bulk of teh upgrades will be going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I agree with Jackal anything more than 230bhp in a se7en on the road is going to be a handful. Look at the reviews of Caterhams......most reviewers prefer the R400 to the R500 I thought about the 2.3 but plumped for the 2.0.....A 2.3 litre engine in a se7en doesn`t sound right Have engine, diff, tacho, clutch and a sexy ultra lightweight flywheel.......need car I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 hand up too. Completely satisfied. More power in my se7en would be too much for normal use or for me to handle. I spent much time researching the Duratec and almost everyone agreed that the 2lt was better suited to the se7en (except Ministers). The 2lt engine is incredibly flexible and absolutely amazing. So that is 2 actual owners saying go the 2lt route 😬 Have a word with Raceline and ask their advice. Richard in France Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I guess it depends on what kind of engine you want. The duratec won`t be as revvy as a K but I`m told the 2.0 is more revvy than the 2.3 I`m also told the 2.3 has more dampening (sp) so is probably a bit smoother but also a bit heavier. 2.3 will have more torque but the 2.0 already has more than enough. I drove a 190bhp duratec and it would pull from 1000rpm in 5th Will the slightly increased height of the 2.0 work with a wet sump or does it have to be dry sumped to get the ground clearance? Another thing to consider is insurance, I know my insurance comapny goes by engine capacity rather than horsepower so you may pay a premium for the 2.3 Have engine, diff, tacho, clutch and a sexy ultra lightweight flywheel.......need car I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 The 2.3 Duratec is a popular choice with engine builders. I supply both Raceline and Mountune with donor engines. They make good power at low rpm very easily. When you have gone as far as you can go with an engine what do you do with it? You make it bigger. Most people get dissatisfied with what they have very quickly. With the 2.3 Duratec the engine has already been stretched. It has the best head I have ever seen on a production engine. Think what it would cost to make a large capacity ali blocked VX with big valves. 10K? This is effectively what you get with the Duratec 2.3. The donor engine is only £1,300.00 + VAT. I am building myself a 2 litre Duratec becuase I happened to have it in stock at the time. I also don't need big power. When I built my Zetec I opted for an 1800 rather than the more popular 2 litre. We'll see if I behave and don't upgrade to a 2.3 Duratec at a later date 😬 Mark Hicks is sticking a 2.3 Duratec in his Seven. It will be nice to compare once we get the cars on the road. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 I reckon that Caterham will try a 2.3 Duratec as a dev car! Nemesis The number 1 Curmudgeon Click here before WillSheFindOut is sold! Want to go to Le Mans but the Club Event is full!! have you tried Team Langoustine Do you want carbon, needthe best quality have you tried DITP Racing abroad try Seven Mania Racing Club Want carbon and fancy KEVLAR!!! then try Richard in France Want inboard suspension try Freestyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Have you been reading the tea leaves again 🤔 Brent Watching the sender of a threatening e-mail sent anonymously by a coward whose identity has now been revealed. Zetec 209 Reassuringly Expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELV15 Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Well you can go by the old addage: "there is no substitue for cubic inches!" But, for a roadgoing car, the 2.0L should be plenty. As Simon pointed out, the 2.3 is not as rev'y as the 2.0. This is because, it is a truck motor designed for low end torque, has a heavier crank (more counterweights), and because the 2.0 is oversquare (which I believe is the ratio of bore/stroke). The issues I would look out for are the rev'yness stuff above and clearance. The 2.3 is ~1/2" taller (14mm IIRC). On my car the bellhousing is the lowest point. I've added a raceline wetsump which makes the sump even with the bellhousing. I've got 83mm of clearance _without_ me or a passenger in the car (13' w/A032R tires). I also have placed the motor as high as possible in the chassis. I made a custom oil filler cap that is only about 2mm high. I could bring the motor up another 5-8mm if I went to a cam cover with the filler cap moved (or removed). Even so, I went with the 2.0 figuring that it would take some time to get used to and if I wanted to I had an upgrade path. Over the next few years there will be lots of folks making aftermarket parts for the duratec. 200-220hp is good enough for now. ELV15 - Tom in California - 200hp duratec powered 2003 Clubsport Build pics and webcam here: here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiF Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Question What se7en do you drive now???? My last se7en was a 1.6 k. The Duratec 2lt is double the bhp with amazing torque. You must be realistic. The difference is absolutely stunning. The 2lt is a truly beautiful engine in a se7en. So far I make that 4 postings from owners of Duratec engined se7ens that all have opted for 2 lts and zero with a 2.3lt. Raceline may be buying 2.3 but they are selling to many other car makers than just se7ens Richard in France Flying fast in my very bright yellow 226bhp Duratec 7, with internal kevlar/carbon panels and pushrod suspension 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Make that 5 posts I opted for the 2.0L since the power & torque potential seemed more than enough for me, and I felt it would be a little more rev happy with the shorter stroke. BTW the car returned this weekend from the shop that built the roll over bar and exhaust manifold. A few photos are located here -John Throttle Steer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeE Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 I currently drive a 135bhp Superlight I'm still divided between the 2.0l and the 2.3l. Part of me says the 2.0l will be plenty for me, but then I think for an extra £300 I can have a 2.3l which then gives me the potential for so much more (without huge additional expense in future). I think the decision would be easier if the 2.3l was significantly more expensive, I'd then happily settle for the 2.0l .....decisions, decisions Edited by - MikeE on 16 Mar 2004 09:27:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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