mav Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Probably won't make that much difference on the Std engine with Std cams Pierre, However it is a transferable upgrade so when you do come to upgrade the cams etc, you will already have the bits to do it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 That makes sense mav Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 As an exercise I have recently checked the cam timing and fitted verniers on a box stock 1.8K, the lift at TDC should be around 20-25 thou on both inlet and exhaust, in fact the inlet valve had no lift at TDC at all and the exhaust had 30 thou. The inlet cam was almost exactly 15 degrees out, moving the stock pulley by one whole tooth would have almost perfectly corrected the cam timing. It made some difference to the performance, especially in the mid range but in all the difference was not overwhelming, probably no more than 8-10ft/lb. A similar check on another box stock 1.8 yielded 2 thou lift at TDC on the inlet and 10 thou on the exhaust. The owner declined my offer of moving the inlet pulley by one tooth which would have pretty near corrected the timing for that cam. I will churn out the drawings for the brackets later today Piper verniers are currently £147 a pair from me, I daresay I could do a deal for multiple sets, RRP is £177, Piper's prices are due to rise around 9% as from 5/1/2004. advert mode> Oily Edited by - oilyhands on 2 Jan 2004 09:22:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 would be up for a bulk buy on any of tthe above Oily - did you get my email re verniers before xmas 🤔 rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Dave, Been trying to get hold of oyu today to organise the bb for the guages and the verniers, and some other bits and pieces). I'll try again in the morning. - Unless you could drop me a mail with the details. Regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 By the way what are really "thou" ? Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 "Thou" is an abreviation for 'Thousands of an inch'. Some of us still prefer to work in non-metric 😳 Mark D Su77on Se7ens Making plans for the 2004 Sprint Season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyR Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 I will certainly have a set if the bulk buy goes ahead Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertie Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Do R400s come with Verniers on and correctly timed or is it a worthwhile mod to do? Edited by - bertie on 2 Jan 2004 19:32:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinwhitcher Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 Bertie, They do not come with Verniers, a very worthwhile upgrade, look at the K11 upgrade on DVA Power site, very very good by what i've heard a lot better performance and also a lot more driveable. Go for it you will not be disappointed!! Martin MW 51 CAT Superlight No.171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 See here for details of a bulk buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heseltine Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I have finally managed to get my engine together again after its bout of water ingestion back in August. Ran for the first time on 31st Dec. I already had Vernier Pulleys supplied and fitted by DVA, but needed to recheck it all as had to fit new bottom pulley. I built alloy bracket to hold analogue and digital dial gauges. I built single bracket which bolts all the way across the head. The digital gauge can be switched from side to side very easily. I used Motutoyo gauges. Digital part number 543-682 at £59 and Analogue part number 2046F at £26.50. (£103.99 inv VAT and del) I made extension for analogue gauge (for TDC) using brass tube from local model railway shop and manage to get 2.5mm nuts and bolts to fit extensions to the gauges from local fixings specialists. I must admit I spent a lot of time making brackets etc. but felt it was worthwhile. Spent even longer checking , rechecking and checking again that I had set it all up correctly. I can provide pictures and dimensions if anyone is interested. Regards, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Colin , Congrats on the engine running again Where did you buy the guages ? and yes can I have a copy of the drawings for the guage holder Ta dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heseltine Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Dave, Bought them direct from Mitutoyo. They have a web site and are I thought based over at Telford, but looking at the invoice it is marked Andover. The tel no. for Andover office is 01264 353123. I have put some photographs on a web site. Not sure how to put a direct link on here but the URL below should take you there: http://www.photobox.co.uk/public/detail.html?c_album=529138 Regards, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I'll be sorting a bb on the gauges too after i call them next week Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heseltine Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Dave, This will hopefully take you there: View pictures here Regards Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Heseltine Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Hi Mav, Hope you both had a good Xmas and have recovered from the new Year. When I bought my gauges they were on special offer (or at least the digital one was). IIRC it was quite a reasonable saving so its worth a talk to them directly to see what they will do for you. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 And What about vernier on VVC? Can you do it? And what sort of gain might it give to the engine? Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 And What about vernier on VVC? Can you do it? And what sort of gain might it give to the engine? Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Jack in short no i think SPeak to DVA but i think you'd need to junk the vvc stuff and get some cams? and a new ecu. Check with DVA for full deails. Regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 If anyone needs some Dial Test Indicators, have a look here 10 quid can't be bad 😬 I've just ordered two. Apparently, the recommendation for one of them to be digital is that it makes it easier to read cam lift when bringing the crank to TDC. But as the digital ones are about 70 quid, I decided to put-up with that disadvantage. I've bought a length of aluminium angle from B&Q for the brackets, so I have a little job to do for the next few evenings 😬 BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I'm new to this 'Vernier cam timing' malarkey and was wondering - before deciding to go for a pair of Vernier pulleys, would it not make sense to check numbers for 'lift at TDC' with the standard/current pulleys and see how far out they are from the 'recommended' numbers? The words I am blushingly groping for are: can you not check cam timing with dial gauges BEFORE splashing out on Verniers? If so, would a pair of £10 analogue gauges do the trick to get an idea of current timing & see if Verniers would be worth it? Cheers Edited by - Ferrino on 14 Jan 2004 23:25:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 That suggestion has already been made and it is a good one. If nothing else it will justify the expenditure. In most cases the gains to be had make it one of the most cost effective mods you can make. Whenever I fit a pair of verniers the first thing I do is offer to check the current cam timing and give the owner the opportunity to stick with things as they are or if a correction can be made by moving either of the pulleys by one tooth then I offer to do this rather than fit verniers. Only on two occasions have the existing cam positions been tolerably close and another couple could have been corrected by moving the inlet pulley one tooth. none so far have delined the fitment. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrino Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Cheers Oily. Do you know if it's possible to hire the relevant dial gauges for a day or so? Don't really want to spend £80-£100 on a digital + analogue gauge when I just want to check the current timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 FWIW, I successfully set my cam timing last night using two 10 quid analogue DTI's - no sweat 😬 I wouldn't want to lend-out my DTI's, but anybody who lives close to Aylesbury can borrow the DTI bracket I made-up 😬 I found that making the bracket(s) to be the most time consuming part of the job - though not exactly rocket science - and refitting the cam belt to be the most difficult - but not impossible for the average hero 😬 BRG Summertime Brooklands SV 😬 It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Edited by - Tony C on 15 Jan 2004 15:37:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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