tiddy1 Posted December 28, 2003 Share Posted December 28, 2003 I am currently building a 1.8 K-series with ported VVC head TB's and emerald and I was going to go for the 285H cam and leave the hydraulic followers and hope for about 200 bhp but people (thats you Rob) are trying to persuade me to go to a 1227 cam and solid tappets. as I see it I would need: set of adapters and shims for followers double valve springs (I already have uprated single ones) I assume the steel caps will fit double springs? (oily) blank off all the oilways in the head blank the oilways in the followers the bottem end is going to be very strong so thats ok any suggestions/ comments have I missed any other bits? what is the expected bhp with a 1227 ? is 200 bhp realistic with a 285 H what will it do to drivability? Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Edited by - Dave Jackson on 29 Dec 2003 08:39:25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 You will need :- A set of shims to convert the hydraulic followers to solid £40 don`t know what you mean by adapters? You would probably be Ok with the single uprated valve springs but I would advise you exchange them for the doubles to be on the safe side. Yes the steel caps should fit the double springs just look and note the double step on the mating surface. Blank off the tappet oilways in the head with 5mm grub screws and fit an oil restrictor dowel in the feed up to the head 6mm is about right. Oily tells me he doesn`t bother blocking off the oil hole into the tappet anymore and I have found it very difficult to remove the centre shim bucket with the holes blocked off. Driveability is not a problem as the engine will produce around 100 lb ft of torque at 3000 rpm and peak power will be around 8000rpm and expect 210 - 220 bhp. Go for it you know it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Are you building an out and out racer? If not I wouldn't bother. 285Hs in a well set up engine will make 200BHP (just ask chris clark if you dare) Increasing cam duration will only increase the rpm at which ram tuning will come into play (the inlet valve will stay open so long that at low rpm it will blow lots of fresh charge back out). Torque will therefore be moved up the rev range increasing maximum power but at the expense of low down torque. Driveability will therefore suffer. Setting up mech tappets was the biggest chore when building my engine, and I only worry about them. Keep the money in the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 So its one for and one against I am erring towards 285h and saving the money for a dry sump, the car is for everyday use plus the odd track day and sprint so driveability is key Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I wouldnt recommend converted hydraulic followers with 1227 cams unless they are VVC ones and in perfect condition, use proper solid followers or the cams and followers may well come to grief, 740s seem OK with converted followers. You cannot use single springs with 1227 cams, they will coilbind and will not have sufficient authority with the lift profile of the 1227s, you must use double springs with the correct steel caps. IME 1227s when properly timed do not lose you much torque in the mid range but the gains to be had are generally between 7800 and 8500 where you could see up to 15/20BHP. If it were me and I were looking for 200BHP I would probably use BP285Hs, provided they are timed correctly and the head is ported properly you should see 200, the last engine I did to this spec. had a lightly ported VVC head and BP285H cams with DTH bodies and Emerald, it made 208BHP at Emeralds rolling road. I I were looking for 210+ I'd use 1227s. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Last post was deleted as I'm in work and the phone went before I finished typing .......... Simon , The 1227s have shown increases in torque over the 740's , but I'm not sure of back to backs with 285H's . Given that you are running std crank and rods on 1800cc I would be mindfull of the revs and would be looking to stay below 7900 rpm ,several 1227 camed engines have made max power below 8000 rpm . However the 1227 route will cost extra ££ for double springs , followers , shims plus you will have to fettle the head to prevent the cam lobe striking it , block the oilways etc . I guess it all depends if you want *plenty* of power (285H) or *every last ounce* (1227)so to speak . Given that you use your car everyday then reliability and mileage is also a key factor , so you wouldnt realy be wanting to adjust your clearances every 6K or 4 months ?? , so another factor to consider ?. I guess that you will be using your car 98% of the time at between 3000 > 6000 rpm so midrange grunt is realy your target , for this you may as an alternative consider 285H , and then do some trumpet tuned length work to see if you can make further midrange gains without increasing the revs or stressing the engine . Now you mention a dry sump , this swings it for me ........ reliable 190 -200bhp , 285H , dry sump and then play with your trumpets to see if we can boost the midrange Dave Lotus 7 Club Speed Champion 2003 South Wales Area Organiser C7 TOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I went down this 'what cam shall I use' route some two years back and decided to try the 285H's.They were new out then (I think I had set no 5). Piper's Warren Johnson said he'd expect about 180 ish bhp with 'em. That sounded OK to me and meant less fiddling around with grinding shims etc.I figured it would be less maintenance in the long run too. In the event it made 202bhp and so I was & am a happy camper. 😬 Clamshell Club Founder Member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 One other area not touched on is injector size and costs. If you go with the 285`s your stock injectors will be oK but fitting 1227 you will probaly need to increase the fuel pressure upto 4 bar using the stock injectors or fit some larger injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markb905 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Simon I've got 285h's in mine, all done by DVA, head, TB's forged pistons, 4-2-1 etc etc, which gave around 205 on emeralds RR. Dificult to comment on the difference between 285's and the others only to say that they work well on the road with plenty of mid range grunt and with the emerald ecu suprisingly easy going around town. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 I think its going to be a 285 then. For a lightly ported VVC head I seem to be creating rather a large pile of swarf ! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Ah well you can always upgrade to 1227 later when you get fed up of being blown into the weeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 tiddy1 It's amazing how much ali you seem to remove from each chamber. I also remember how much time it took too................seemed like forever! Enjoy Clamshell Club Founder Member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Tiddy , I thought you were only cleaning up the back of the valve seats ?? hope you are not getting carried away And yes Rob is right , when the SLR's come past 😬 1227 cams and 220 bhp is only £1000 away 😬 Lotus 7 Club Speed Champion 2003 South Wales Area Organiser C7 TOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 Dave, yes I am probably getting carried away but I need to match the inlet manifold and exhaust ports, then the valve seats looked very recessed so the combustion chamber was polished up...and then it just goes on but I have not gone anywhere as far as the photo on DVA's web site so there is still time for a little more fetteling Its re-grinding the valve seats which seems to take ages Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahatma Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Hope you don't mind me jumping in on this .... When I'm grinding in my valves, I seem to get a nice dull consistant finish on the valves but radial lines on the seats. Do I just need to keep going with fine paste until all of the radial lines on the seats dissapear? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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