EFA Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Yes, new ECU installed, map transferred and crank position sensor recalibrated - gues what it started. Runs a bit lumpy but this is likely lack of flywheel. Leaks oil from sump ( a K2RUM trademark) but otherwise a few more minor adjustments and we should be in business. SO I reversed it out of and back into the garage. First movement in 3 months.... One question for those who have installed multiplate clutches in the past (Especially PC if you're reading this...).... When the clutch is disengaged is it normal to get a slight metallic scraping noise a the plates interfere whith the drive surfaces??? Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Vauxhall that just about moveswink.gif Edited by - fast arnie on 16 Mar 2001 21:21:07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 When the clutch is disengaged is it normal to get a slight metallic scraping noise a the plates interfere whith the drive surfaces??? Yes, very normal, I like the sound! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 16, 2001 Author Share Posted March 16, 2001 Its just a bit noisy to sound healthy..... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Well I suppose it's subjective - Keith Jecks and Ross Bowdler can confirm what a BDG multi-plate clutch sounds like - it is pretty noisy in neutral - a sort of "clattering" sound... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Arnie Which ECU did you get in the end? Jason R500FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 16, 2001 Author Share Posted March 16, 2001 Its quiet in Neutral, just noisy (similar to release bearing noise, but NOT release bearing noise) when the pedal is pressed (clutch disengaged). Jason, I went for an MBE 956 as it is easy to transfer the map and its plug compatible with my existing loom (the 967 is not...!) I actually got really speedy service from MBE and about 20% discount by pushing to do the deal direct! Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Your description make it sound like you've fitted a Ducati clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 16, 2001 Author Share Posted March 16, 2001 Well it is small..... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 5.5 inches isn't it!!!? Stewart you're right, I had a 900 Il Mostro and that clattered too... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Arnie, Congrats, and can I ask for another tip? How did you align the splines on the 2 plates so that the crankshaft can go in easily? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 17, 2001 Author Share Posted March 17, 2001 Alex, I have a spare (knackered) input shaft from a std 5 speed box. Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Biddle Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Arnie, mine "clatters" in neutral with the clutch engaged, but is quiet with the clutch disengaged. There is a noise as you engage the clutch and the plates start to contact, but it is a high pitched squealing/scraping, or metallic whistle. If thats what you have with the clutch disengaged perhaps you need to check that the spacing of the release bearing is correct, it may not be fully disengaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 17, 2001 Author Share Posted March 17, 2001 Mike, Sounds like we have the same noise. I can select all the gears from neutral slick and easy with no shunt up the driveline so I reckon its fully disengaged. I also spend ages testing it and doing a dry build before I put engine and box in the car..... What I didn't mention is that the clutch is brand new and this is the first time its been disengaged - perhaps it'll quieten down after a few miles....... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 My BDG clutch sounded like a barrell full of nails when you pressed the pedal. Then, when you released it, it was like an on off switch! Hope yours is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 17, 2001 Author Share Posted March 17, 2001 Just completed first proper shake down up towards Jex's neck of the woods (Wapses Lodge and back) - Keith the clutch is exactly like an on off switch - very difficult to slip, and wheelspin however carefully you try to pull away. But what the clutch and lightened internals have done for the gearchange is astonishing. Can bang through all six gears like I have a sequential box - Amazing!!! Super short gearing means I can spin the wheels on the throttle in all six gars in the damp conditions today. Most suprising is that despite losing 15kilo's off the flywheel/crank assy, and reducing the engines rotary inertia to the point that the throttle is also like a switch between tickover and 9000rpm, the engine does not seem to have lost any of its torque charecteristics. On the flat it pulled from 25mph in 6th, and still pulls smoothly like a train in any gear between 300 and 5000 rpm. Great stuff - Next stop the rollers to check ignition timing 100% and also cure an oil leak from the sump gasket, then it'll be pistols at dawn for guess who..... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in what might be a not so Slow Vauxhall wink.gif Edited by - fast arnie on 17 Mar 2001 15:30:28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Hey FA, going to 9000 rpm immediately, is that wise, what about the concept of "running in"? Having said that there are many approaches, and yours is one of them. I don't think I've read a thread on blatchat about "running in", perhaps in this day and age we are all used to instant performance from tin tops straight out of the showroom. When I bought my Caterham BDR I was fanatical about running in, and even if I hire a car with 50 miles on the clock I'll baby it in between handbrake turns and 360's. "the clutch is exactly like an on off switch - very difficult to slip, and wheelspin however carefully you try to pull away." Rant hat on smile.gif I still can't get over this oft-quoted rubbish (no offence Arnie but I've heard it too many times...) - You are putting up with minimal inconvenience for bullet-proof drivetrain performance. It is ***NO WAY*** an off/on switch if you have any feel whatsoever for a car (IF you are using shoes that you can feel in, and not clodhoppers.) After a while it is a total non-issue, and yes, a race clutch can be slipped, with practice, even uphill, in the wet, on gravel!!! Believe me, unless your clutch is not adjusted properly you WILL get used to it and when you revert to driving a "normal" car, even a 7, with a "normal" clutch action you'll feel that you're pressing a rubber band the feel is so loose. Remember, a 7 weighs next to nothing, that's why you CAN "slip" a race clutch, as opposed to say a heavier touring car. Rememember, you are using racecar technology on the road, and if you do that don't expect a road car feel! Hat offteeth.gif Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 18, 2001 Author Share Posted March 18, 2001 In my defence your honour..... I am a great believer in letting the oil do its job properly, so warming an engine up is a key item on my agenda. Running in however is not. Having been spoilt by a number of performance cars (hot hatchy type things) when in my 20's, many of which were company cars and I didn't give a damn, running in was never on the agenda. Testing the limiter upon first blast downm the Caterham Bypass certainly was however) All of these cars did high mileages without any porblems, and were normally the quickest example on the co. fleet. None of them EVER blew up! With regards to the Seven I didn't actually go to 9000 rpm - only 5000 (under load). I was merely indicating that the engine will whip up to very high rev's in a few nanoseconds now the flywheel and cranks have been transformed from their Vanessa Felps profile to a more Posh Spice mass. The only new bearing surfaces are the mains and big ends so I don't expect to have to drive with a view to avoidance of cylinder hot spots as the bores and rings are original. Guess 100 - 200 miles at under 5k will be plenty.... The clutch is a 5.5" item and I am sure this is more difficult than a 7.5" to control. All of the bearing fitment and operation is 100% OK. The great Mr Peter Carmichael had the same experience with tye clutch, althoughI do have to say on-off may be a slight exaggeration, but it provides a good analagy of the comparison between the 9" road clutch this car had before and what it has now. Having driven the car durting a brief dry spell today I can report that either my left foot is becoming more sensitive, or the clutch is bedding in a little more. Also my TPS calibration is a little suspect and its possible I am underfueling at lower rpm which in itself would cause a stalling tendancy. Steps down from the bench..... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Arnie, I've just put the engine back in with the quatermaster clutch and it is very heavy! Being a mechanical setup, I can't easily lighten it and I think I'm just going to have to get used to it (and buy a few spare clutch cables!) Just wondered if yours was heavy to operate. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Silence in court! BANG BANG BANG!!! Running in - "a fast run-in = a fast car" - paraphrased. And I must admit, it seems to work. Betcha in a month or two you'll be slipping your cluth like a biddy with alzheimers! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Bet I'll be putting new plates in before Le Mans if I do! Alex, mines Hydraulic which should mean its lighter.... but I think this is about as light as Posh is heavy.....I think its a case of getting used to it. Now its run a little it does feel much better than it did when I first sat in the car a pressed the pedal if that depresses you less.... Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Thanks Arnie, You have just explained the noise I had with my clutch so I don't need to go and investigate the release bearing now. I have found it is quite possible to slip the clutch a very little for slow, crawling getaways, but with anything other than a few revs on you get a horrible judder in the attempt. Easiest to put the slip between road and tyres where it belongs. Welcome to the light flywheel club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Arnie, I'm always on the lookout for a faster gearchange what's the explanation for the better gearchange following your latest mods? Is it that the lighter clutch gives the synchros an easier time as they can speed up or slow down the gears ready to mesh quicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Stuart, Its not so much the clutch, but the flywheel amd the lighter cranksahft mean the engine has less inertia and the synchro's work better in this environment. Basically it is simply that the engine increases and decreases speed quicker, so you can adapt to road speed faster. Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I thought you might say that, but once the clutch disengages the flywheel and crankshaft etc from the gearbox how can their lack of weight help. Surely with the clutch depressed all the sychros do is synchronise the input side with the output side of the gearbox so that the two can be geared together with the next ratio. I can see that the lighter crank/flywheel etc allow the engine to gain or lose revs more quickly and this aids acceleration and engine braking but I'm struggling to get my head around their part in the faster gear changes. I think I feel a thesis from PC coming on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Peter, I get a similar noise on overrun in 4th and 6th gears. Phil S reckons as sixth is direct it can't be induced by the box, and he also stated race clutches are tend to amplify all of the drivetrain shunt and noise significantly. Have you found the same??? Stewart, If you are driving at 8000rpm in 3rd and you change into 4th where perfect enmgine speed wouyld then be say 6500rpm, the speed of your change is very significantly effected by rate of slowing of engine speed. I think a certain amount of clutch drag still occurs when you disengage the clutch is a fast gear change, and this drag continues to spin the input shaft, making life difficult for the synchro's. Anyway, forget the theory - I guess you'll see my or Peters car pretty soon and you'll be able to hear/see for yourself. Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a not so Slow Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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