Bob Corb Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 I'm wondering whether to get an oil cooler for my Caterham (when it arrives, A@#^&star lost the order!). I know MGFs have high oil temp problems and in order to protect my investment I thought it would be wise to add a cooler. What sort of oil temps do R500s and SLRs get upto on sprints/trackdays etc and what sort of coolers are they fitted with if any?? My engine is an MGF VVC unit which will be converted to roller TB's and Piper 285 cams before installation, roughly 180BHP (at first) and will be dry sumped. I've got an MGF cup oil filter housing with integral take offs for a cooler (saved myself a few grams not adding a mocal plate!!) Thanks in advance BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Hi Bob I've just fitted the Superlight Racer oil cooler kit to my R500 This is only needed for racing when slipstreaming causes temperatures to go much higher (or so Caterham say) the kit is approx 75.00 + VAT and comes complete with everything you need to fit to a dry sumped car Jason R500FUN Edited by - Jason on 17 Mar 2001 19:29:41 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slipper man Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 R500 owners have been debating this one quite a lot. I cannot say whether your car will need a cooler or not, but the firm advice from Minister is that the oil should not be allowed to exceed 110 degrees. As standard, an R500 does not have an oil cooler fitted, and as you can see from Jason's response, on a track you need one if you are going fast. I am afraid that for road use, a cooler will make the oil run too cool, so am not (at the moment!) planning to fit one myself, but I'll see how the oil temps do this Summer on track days. The other bit of advice from Minister is that they prefer a good synthetic 15w/40 oil in their engines (rather than the 0W/40that K cars usually run), provided owners understand that they must warm the engine up thoroughly before using any revs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Another option may be an oil/water heat exchanger... Advantages are: - gets the oil up to "working" temp. (70-80degC) quicker than without - prevents it getting too hot (>> 100degC) - can be fitted pretty much *anywhere* in the engine bay - more resistant to damage Disadvantage is that I think it's a bit heavier than a trad oil cooler. And may be a bit more pricey. I've yet to go on track with mine, or use it in the heat (yeah right) of summer, so can't conclusively comment on its performance. But so far it looks fine. For typical day to day use though I believe Keith is spot on (i.e. that a K with a trad oil cooler [and presumably no thermostat] will run with its oil too cool most of the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dent Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 there is no reason why you couldnt stop the air flow through the oil rad to help boost temps on those cold days or non track days. It would also be dependant on where the oil rad was situated. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Or you could just get a thermostatic valve for the oilcooler sandwich plate dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Thanks for the help chaps. I've got an oil to water type cooler sitting on the self doing nothing so I'll fit that with a thermostat if required. Being an oil to water type it should help heat the oil a little quicker too. BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 The big worry about the oil/water type heat exchanger is that you are not increasing the heat transfer capability of the entire system. At the same time as tying the oil temperature to the water, all that extra heat now has to pass out of the system at water temperature rather than oil temperature (less efficient transfer) and it has no more airflow to make use of (no more radiator surface area). This is where you need the radiator capacity to be up to the job. Thankfully, Andrew Murphy has volunteered as the pioneer... I will watch the results closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Well I figure it's about time I pioneered something after blagging from the good work done by Mr Andrews, PC, MikeB etc. Can I have volunteers for a shoulder to cry on if it doesn't work out smile.gif Coming clean, however, I'm told that these have been run on a couple of race cars to good effect. Also I have the thicker ali' race rad' installed which should help (forgot to mention that before - sorry). With a bit of luck I'll be doing the Le Sept thing so should get 3 track days in close succession in summer, plus a fair bit of fast road mileage. Should give it a good work out. C7 AJM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Martyr Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Why not just fit an Apollo tank which acts as an air/oil cooler in addition to its prime role? The extra oil required adds to the thermal inertia of the whole system. I would rather put the heat into air than into the coolant system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 I've got one of those too. I still think that the bigger problem with k-series cars, and definitely on the road, is getting the oil up to temperature rather than cooling it significantly. As noted, for track days I've yet to test the whole set up so can't really comment, but I'll be surprised if the system can't cope. Incidently, assuming fitting a more traditional oil cooler involves putting it in front (or behind) the water radiator, isn't the performance of one of them being compromised there too? C7 AJM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterS Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 Our 1.6 Supersport ran hot at the Ring last year, and the year before, even though fitted with the Apollo. Someone explained to me that the water radiator is not as efficient as it might be, because it is designed to improve the exhaust emissions. Changing to a more efficient cooling radiator could cool the whole engine, as well as the oil. I haven't had the time to investigate this further yet, and the Ring is looming. It just means that the long straight is used for cooling at the end of each lap, rather than fast blasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 "the water radiator is not as efficient as it might be, because it is designed to improve the exhaust emissions". Blimey I'd like to know what they were on. It's the job of the thermostat to keep the engine operating at it's optimum temperature. If you make the radiator small enough to keep the engine above the temperature at which the thermostat opens then any rise in ambient temp. will cause the engine to overheat. If you make the radiator big enough to bring the thermostat into play (which it should be) then making it bigger still won't make the engine run any cooler than the 'stat temp. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Ince Posted March 22, 2001 Share Posted March 22, 2001 Tony What is a Apollo tank? Would this increase the oil capacity in a K series dry sump? If so how much extra oil and where can I buy one? Richard Ince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 The "Apollo" tank is Caterhams's oil/air separator, often mistakenly referred to as an "anti cavitation" tank. Rather than increasing the oil capacity why not just change the oil more often? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterS Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 Mike It was a Rover design engineer who explained this to me, but I wasn't making notes at the time. I could get a formal explanation if it helps. Incidentally he has a 7 and a 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 23, 2001 Share Posted March 23, 2001 It would certainly help - anything to reduce my level of ignorance... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted March 24, 2001 Share Posted March 24, 2001 Richard, You can run the Apollo tank with the dry sump system. It is something I am seriously looking at as I have both of them attached to separate engines at the moment. You will get about 2.5 litres more oil in circulation. In almost all circumstances, the Apollo tank will be doing nothing. In such circumstances as it comes into play it will do its usual anti-foam air/oil separation thing. Sounds like a good thing to me. One thing to worry about is the Apollo tank's habit of draining when the car is left unused for a period of time. This oil will get down to the sump and on startup it may get pumped out into the catch tank. A non-return valve in the vent line will fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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