Big Brother Posted March 13, 2001 Share Posted March 13, 2001 Hi All, I am currently an "almost" owner, having surfed this site for several weeks I am finaly about to climb out of the pan and into the fire! I have a VERY limited budget, so will be looking to purchace a used, 4 speed seven with a live axle and a Ford X-flow. I know this will not be the most potent seven ever built, but we all have to start somewhere biggrin.gif I have a few smile.gifquestions regarding this type of Seven, I hope you guys (and Gals)can answer them as I have been unable to get the answers from scouring the previous posts. My questions are which upgrade options will be open to me if I go with a 4 speed x-flow? Can the 4 speed box be replaced with a 5/6 speed? If so which ones. How reliable is the x-flow and how does this engine stand up to high mileage, assuming it is unmodified? Can the X-flow engine be replaced with a Zetec and if so, how involved a conversion is this? Does the engine just fitbiggrin.gif, or is a conversion "kit" needed? Can any other engines be fitted to the car? Are there any disadvantages of having a car with a live axle? Also can the live axle handle the power increase if a Zetec can be fitted, or do you need to have a dedion? Can a FIA roll bar be fitted to an older car (1980-90) All answers will be read! Thanks in advance Steve Out of the frying pan...cool.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 13, 2001 Share Posted March 13, 2001 Hi Steve The 4 speed can be replaced by 5 or 6 speed but depending on which chassis you get, it may need modifying around the transmission tunnel together with shorter propshaft. Not impossible but not cheap either. The X/Flow is a very reliable engine but does have fairly limited lifespan in standard trim. See recent postings on the subject particularly the comments from the X/Flow God himself the venerable Mr Roger King, for more insight in to the subject. The Zetec is certainly the easiest upgrade to make (IMHO) and conversion kits are available from several sources i.e. James Whiting, Dunnell and Raceline. If you are sticking with the 4speed box then it is the only practical alternative to the X/Flow; apart from BDG or Twin Cam of course. The Zetec 2L will make around 160-165 Bhp in standard trim with 40 DCOEs and at that point you are pushing it with the live Ital axle. Mine produces 192 and I am constantly aware of the need to feed the power in OH SO GENTLY. I discussed this at great length with James Whiting and the analogy he used was "Look how easy it is to undo a stubborn bolt with a spanner if you shock the end with a mallet, but lean on it gently and the bolt will usually stay put". Made sense to me anyway! If you go to 5 speed then it is possible to fit other engines such as the Vx or the Rover units. Not sure about the FIA bar on a 1990 chassis. If I were to do it over again I would most probably go to the De-Dion chassis, if only because the rear end can handle a lot more power which is something almost all owners want after a while. But whatever you get you will find it is the most addictive driving experience - bar none! Enjoy it Good luck Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted March 13, 2001 Share Posted March 13, 2001 Steve Generally all Xflow chaissis after 1993/4 can take the 5/6 speed box. Look uder the car for two sets of holes where the tail of the box mounts to determine if you have a "universal" chassis. The X/flow probably only lasted 80k miles in std 84bhp trim in the Mexico, so if you have a 1700SS this will be dramatically reduced. Expect 20k out of a well maintained 1700SS which see's a track a couple of times a year.... Brent is right, the Zetec is the easiest upgrade to make. I did one in an early DiDion in about 1995. The only big disadvantages to a live axle are no control over rear geometry (toe in and camber), limited power rating of diff's (200bhp is about the limit) I believe there is an FIA bar which fits under the roof for the 80's live axle cars - it was not introduced until abouyt 1990 though. If there isn't get Arch to make you a bespoke one.. Arnie Webb The Fat Bloke blush.gif in a Slow Old Vauxhall wink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted March 14, 2001 Share Posted March 14, 2001 On the live axle limitations you can 'upgrade' to a Ford axle. Simon Ray recently did this. Lots of pain getting Raceline and Arch organised to do the mods. He is happy now. A good mod I made on my prev live axle car was going to Rose jointed rear dampers. You still have a spigot/pin mounting at the top but a rose joint at the to axle mounting. This lets the damper work at the correct angle without it getting bent as the car goes over nearside to offside uneven ground. I found the difference on bumpy B road amazing. Talk to James W about this if you want more comment. Easiest best handling road handling mod I made to that car. Mine were from Avo. They have a web presence. They were ~£100 quid each. James can sell you Leda but they are more money..nice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted March 14, 2001 Share Posted March 14, 2001 The crossflow is a good solid engine, very easy to work on. Some parts are starting to get a bit harder to come by, as Ford no longer produce spares for it. Roger King can probably source most bits if asked nicely. The Ital axle is not the strongest, but it can be upgraded. A Limited Slip Differential will allow more power, but if you stick with the Crossflow it should be ok unless you go for extreme upgrades. There is an FIA rollbar for the Live Axle. The 4 speed box can be replaced with the ford 5 speed, or have the internals replaced by someone like Quaife with straight cut gears, and ratios suited to the the engine up you have (or intend to have). Even the standard 1600 classic with "only" 100 bhp is a quick and involving car. Don't be put off by the chat of those who are producing huge power outputs, most of the fun is had at (relatively) slow speeds out on the public roads. The real power can't be used except on the track. At least with a crossflow you'll be able to use full throttle on the public highway and not loose your licence. Get the car and enjoy it. I've had my crossflow/live axle for 11 years, and have only just started a serious upgrade & engine change. The car is brilliant, and extremely rewarding to drive. Dave H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted March 14, 2001 Author Share Posted March 14, 2001 Thanks for the answers / advice so far. Dave, you say the 4 speed box can be replaced with the later 5 speed version. Is this a straight swap, or is it more involved? Also can a live seven be converted to de dion, or is this too major to consider? The main reason for my questions is that as parts get harder (read Expensive) to source, I want to make sure that there are some low cost, easy to install alternatives open to me. I aim to keep the car for a while, then as funds allow upgrade to a better (faster) spec. If possible I aim to keep the "original" car for lifebiggrin.gif Steve Out of the frying pan..... Edited by - Steve Motts on 14 Mar 2001 11:21:57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted March 14, 2001 Share Posted March 14, 2001 Steve, I discussed putting a 5 speed box in my Seven with Caterhams about 9 or 10 years ago, and they said then it was a simple job, but it required the prop shaft being shortened. I think they now make one the right length fo rthe Live Axle car. As for converting to De Dion - while it may be possible, I think it would be a nightmare job. The transmission tunnel has extra strengthening members in it, and some mod to the rear chassis and well as the new diff. There has been talk on Blatchat of alternative axles - Ford (now getting old), Toyota (starlet?) still around. If the Fireblade powered Seven takes off as Paul Harvey hopes, then a replacement for the Ital Axle should be along soon. The Live Axle car is considerably lighter than the De Dion - which is why they all need loads of extra power to drag their back ends along teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted March 14, 2001 Author Share Posted March 14, 2001 Can anyone give me some advice on what to look for when buying a 1980-1990 Caterham Are there any things in particular to look / listen for? Do Caterhams have any "stock" faults? Thanks Steve Out of the frying pan..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted March 14, 2001 Share Posted March 14, 2001 Mine is a '97 universal chassis but would not accept the 5 speed 'box without tunnel mods. so not a straightforward swap unfortunately. The car can still be enjoyed with the 4 speed box however although the 5th o/drive speed comes into its own on motorways which, in any case, are not the natural 7 habitat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted March 17, 2001 Author Share Posted March 17, 2001 Can anyone give me some advice on what ot look for when buying a Caterham. Do the cars suffer from any standard faults, or do they have any weakspots? Cheers Steve Out of the frying pan..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl0498 Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Steve, Not sure why Brent's 97 chassis wouldn't take a 5 speed box - my scholarship car built late 97 was fine - as where all the 95 onwards scholarship cars. Suggest when you start looking that you join the L7CGB, if you haven't already and pop along to the regular meetings at your local group and get the guys/gals to help in detail to show you specifics on their cars and perhaps to accompany you on potential purchases. Only by seeing lots of cars in detail will you pick up the feel for what you require. Suspect 5 speed box equipped live axle cars are probably no more expensive than 4 speed ones. A possible 'cheap' way to obtain a relatively recent but well used crossflow car equipped with the 5 speed box/FIA bar etc is to seek out an old 95-97 scholarship car. These cars, in varying conditions(!), are available for approx £6-8K. Talk to Classic Carriage (01455 841616) Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 This is not an exhaustive list but somethings I always check. With XF's a compression test is easy. Noisy valve gear on Rovers / VX's might mean track use and wrong oil level / no air/oil separator. One compressed tappet set for a Valve is ~£250 to fix. Check all the usuals, steering play, wheel bearings, brakes, UJ's etc. Look closely for any damage. Wheels knocked scuffed tyres. Is every thing straight? Corrosion on the rear tubes / tank area. Corrosion of ali near footwells on both sides. Look for sump to ground collision. Exhaust to ground collision? Check the fuel hose. Caterham had some dodgy stuff that cracked in 3 years and will need replacing. Check the wheel stud threads for over tightening. Clutch feel / gearbox feel. Does everything work? Is there a service / repair / improvements log? Check the heritage. Is the car what it claims to be. I use all of the above to reduce the price if I still want the vehicle. A lot of 7's are very well looked after. Be careful of the non recognised dealers... You gets what you pays for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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