Bob Corb Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I've been investigating options for new adjustable dampers for the seven and have come up with several options. I use Bilstein M1s just now which are great on track (not very often) but a bit firm for the rutted country roads nearby. It looks like Nitrons will be getting my order but I dropped Caterham a note yesterday to see if they had any suggestions. I got a prompt reply from Simon Lambert who was offering a new adjsutable Bilstein unit at £295 ea. They are a single adjustable road version of the new R400 race unit (alloy bodied and "rose" jointed). They are 40% more expensive than nitron but I fail to see what the main benefits are? Can anyone tell me what difference the alloy body makes? Caterham cant be sure whether they will actually be getting these new dampers in as the min order is 200. As it stands I cant imagine them moving them very quickly... BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Bob, The AVO SA1000 are very good, I am very pleased with them. £80 per corner. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 The main benefit usually is weight, but the Nitrons even in steel flavour are very light anyway (my 14" NTRs are under 2kgs with spring), so I doubt there's much to be gained there. The only other real advantage is anti corrosion, but again the Nitrons are meant to be plated / coated so as not to rust, so that hopefully not an issue either. You can get the Nitron NTRs in ally body too, about £50 per shock more I believe, so it still may work out cheaper than the Bilstiens if you want to go that route. I know that Bilsteins are very well respected but the Nitron NTRs are very nice dampers, everyone that has them seems to rave about them, and Guy the chap that runs Nitron, is very helpful too. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I've heard good things about the Nitrons as well especially the alloy bodied ones... the set that I've seen were exceptionally light compared with a standard bilstien damper. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 The new Caterham adjustables have been developed from the 24H Nurburgring race car dampers, If youv'e been there you'll understand why that good for road cars They offer simultaneous adjustment for bump and rebound around the race setup and are of course lighter than standard and so reduce any unsprung weight effect. and No, I haven't ordered a set.....but I know someone who has and 25 cars ain't too many Lawrence perhaps we'll see them at Curborough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Do you fit 8 shocks to each car then? Even though Nurburgring is a bit bumpy, if they are the same as the race dampers, wouldnt they have valving thats optimised for harder springs so be better suited to a track orientated car rather than a road biased car? Im not saying the Bilsteins wouldnt be good, they may well have been valved differently to to the race setup anyway, but with Nitrons you can tell them exactly what springs etc you plan to use, and what environment you are using them in, and so can be valved accordingly, and might be a better bet for this particular occasion when road manners is the main priority. Chris Edited by - ChrisG on 8 Oct 2003 09:34:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 What's wrong with the standard Bilstein unit? Shock absorbers are a bit of a mystery to me so I've left mine alone. I have a set of Freestyle supplied Avo dampers with springs and rosejointed ends which I've never got around to fitting because I've been quite happy with the standard Caterham setup. Can anybody tell me what changing to AVO/Nitron has done to their handling and/or lap times and why these dampers are better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I had a quick drive in Daren Ball's car after he had fitted AVO's, he also changed spring rates so it wasn't an entirely fair comparison but the car seemed to put the power down much better out of corners. He also mentioned that it reduced his tyre wear by loads suggesting an improvement in something although I'm not quite sure what. (I guess traction). Other comments I've heard include an improvment in low speed ride with the Nitrons. I'm fairly sure that if I replaced my 11 year old 40k bilsteins that have done hmm say 80-100 track days/airfields/races I would see an improvment 😬 Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 The benefits of Nitron vs bilstein were discussed here by PC http://www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=32855 The problem is that my car is set up well for the track, Bilstein M1 dampers, 250/170 springs (fr/rr), wide track. Problem is that the M1 dampers are a bit firm for the road. If I went to std Bilsteins then I'd compromise the track handling which I enjoy. The aim of this exercise is to achieve a good set up for both without having to swap parts for every track day. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Compared to my old Avos Ive found that I can run my Nitrons much harder on track whilst still getting good braking, and not being knocked off line on every little bump or kerb. I havent got any lap-time comparisons as Ive only compared them on trackdays, but they do feel significantly better, hopefully even more so when Ive had a play with softer springs, as I didnt find out until after buying the springs that gas monotube dampers have a small spring-rate of their own (cos they push the piston back out) so to keep the same effective springrate as my old Avos Id need to drop actual springrate a little. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Peter C reckoned approx 1 sec gain on a run at Curborough with his nitrons I think. If you want to have a road and race setup then it sounds like you want adjustable ones - make Alex an offer for his unused set of Freestyle avos HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 £200 plus p&p or collection. Any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Me. Alex, you have mail. AMMO Edited by - AMMO on 8 Oct 2003 15:31:20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Do you fit 8 shocks to each car then? Sorry for the quantum leap..... They are Race dampers .....and it's usual for half to be allocated the R400 race series..... Lawrence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Going back to the original question... It is unlikely that Nitron or others will be better than the Bilsteins for the rutted road scenario. Caterham have the Bilsteins valved with a levelling off in damper force as speeds increase (digressive). This gives a better ride and less sensitivity to vehicle loading. Guy would look at you funny if you asked him to valve Nitrons like that. It sounds to me like the M1 dampers are too hard and the ordinary Bilsteins would solve the rutted road problem. I have gradually been edging up the Nitron valving and now have a ride on the uncomfortable side of firm, but brilliant fun as long as I can hang on tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Bob, Running with 250 F and 170 R you will always have a lively ride on the road regardless of what dampers you fit and IMHO these spring rates are too high. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 My fourteen year old Spax are the uncomfortable side of firm. Great on good surfaces / race tracks but a bit of a pain sometimes on rutted roads. I just have to leave the steering wheel loose in my hands and let the car sort itself out. You can still make good progress this way. Any softer and I would be bottoming the sump and silencer all the time. I reckon I have around 250 / 170 lbs. As a compromise I am very happy with the spring rates and shocks I have. On the race track I cannot fault the suspension. It is superb. The front is incredibly planted and inspires loads of confidence. Although non-adjustable for ride height the corner weights are close enough. The only reason I'm going to try to put Alex's shocks on my car is that my old Spax are a nice rust colour all over. And the weight saving of course 😬 AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I changed to Bilstien M1 dampers last spring , the cars handling was improved setting faster times round curborough and all other sprint venues . The car is also great on the road . Carefull selection of springs , ARB and dampers is needed . I'm realy happy with the billies , but nobody has done back to back tests with Nitrons , Penske , AVO , freestyle etc etc etc so the question which is best will never be answered . Everyone thinks they have the best setup Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Good point. I suspect the people with the best info are those that have run a group of Racecars or Caterhams themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted October 9, 2003 Author Share Posted October 9, 2003 Dave, What spring rates and ARBs are you using? Springs are cheap and it could be worth having a play! I should also try disconnecting the rear ARB I guess? BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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