robmar Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 PP - problem is already bought the emerald, tb and had it RR'd so even if I could recoup some of the cash I am out of pocket. But that is not the issue, I am just generally playing devils advocate becuase to me it doesn't seem 100% fair for the unmodified to only k's rule... Kipper - Ken - in which case BB can ignore all mine as well due to the high level of repetition Graham - Anyway, by the time the Modded plenum K's are getting near to 180 BHP they are getting highly modified themselves. agreed, so one way to distinguish is the standard plenum rule which all seem to agree on, it is just what else can be changed that needs to be sorted... also One further comment and that is that 1700 crossflows have always sat in the second from slowest class since I first started sprinting with the club 10 years ago. Why move them to a higher class now after all these years particularly as there are getting fewer and fewer of them every year ? who said move the 1700 xflow up a class 🤔 rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Rob, I'd buy your Emerald but I've got one already too Setting any regulations will always open up possibilities for people to use them to best advantage unless everything is supplied as a control, don't really see Caterham lending us 75 identical cars though Surely the trick is to set regs that if everyone who wishes to take the time and money to build 'the ultimate machine', then whichever route they take gets them to a similar position. I know the regs should be for the majority and shouldn't discourage entrants, but surely restricting ecu's on K's is just capping them way below the potential for the crossflow. You're just swapping one set of people who feel disadvantaged for another ☹️ This could go on forever, my vote / suggestion is for 1.8k's to come down into the same classes as the 1.6's. All K's in classes 2 and 3 to have either standard type metal or plastic plenum chambers, and no other restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I agree with your for the 2nd time to day 😬, only change (to class 3) to allow 1.8 K's in to class 3 maybe next year when I win everything with a modded K, we can then ban them all for 2005 😬 only joking of course, as I suspect I will be way behind Dave as usual 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I'm starting to regret not competing for 2003 now, would have been fun to see how Dave and I got on against each other for the whole year 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 i think it would have been close, I would have expected you to be closer to him than me, He would have wrapped the championship up very quickly if it wasn't for car probs at Curbugger 1 and MIRA ☹️ aha - so an advantage to the standard K in that respect. I take back everything I have said we should only allow 1100 unmoded K's in class 2&3 😬 rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Would have been even more interesting if I'd managed to compete in more rounds this year 😬 Ironically in my case it's not the engine that's been unreliable but the rest of the car, I've managed to break the gearbox 3 times and the chassis once!! Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Edited by - rgrigsby on 10 Sep 2003 17:51:43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Hi All Been at Jag all day today hence the lack of postings, some of us need to work to earn money so we can compete (tongue firmly in cheek again) Can we stop the postings for now please so I can digest it all and I'll put another posting up later Graham Competition Secretary Lydden , Curborough , MIRA , Llandow , Loton Park , Curborough *thumbup*, Aintree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 if this is for all engine types then I agree, however the main point being discussed here is that in classes 2&3 we could have non modified K's against heavily modded x-flows, so where do you draw the line as to standard spec I would prefer a non-modified K to a heavily modded x-flow... I concur with moving 'standard' 1.8s into 2 and 3 and just requiring Ks in 2 and 3 to use factory plenums, perhaps the wording should be 'single throttle body'. You cannot realistically police other mods so let them run riot. You definitely don't want to allow factory SuperSports yet disallow DVA equivalents that happen to use an Emerald, the latter seems to be an eminently sensible route for someone to take whereas a 180BHP plenum K seems to be a rather dumb route. It would be nice to find a way of discouraging people from taking a club championship or event too seriously, I'd also like to find a way of winning the lottery. Sensible suggestions on the latter are welcome... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I've had some time to have a look, see my ad in the Wanted section 😬 Graham Competition Secretary Lydden , Curborough , MIRA , Llandow , Loton Park , Curborough *thumbup*, Aintree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Phew, I thought you were going to be advertising for a new Competition Secretary 😳 BB, I'm sure I'm echoing the sentiments of everyone when I say thanks for all the time and effort you put into the sprints, it is very much appreciated. Whatever you decide the final regs should be, you'll never please everyone, but I'm sure you'll still have full entry lists next year PP p.s. If you regulate aginst the K series, better get yourself a bodyguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 So (takes deep breath 😳 😳 😳) Lets try again, based on the postings on this site its obvious this is not going to happen overnight although I do think that with 7 months to go before the first event the excuse of its a bit late in the day is very weak, how much notice do you guys need *confused*, will we be having the same argument in 12 months time ( I think so *thumbdown*) So in essence the general consensus is: Class 1: As it is now Class 2: As it is now but also allowing 1.8K's (140bhp) with standard plenum (No VVC or VHPD Heads allowed for 1.6 or 1.8 K's)(free ECU) 1A Tyres Class 3: As Above but 1B Tyres Class 4: As now but clear definition that other 1.8K's (R300, 400, 500) or 1.6K's with VVC & VHPD Head as well. 1A Tyres Class 5: As above but 1B Tyres Class 6: As Now (everthing else) In principle the only changes being made affect the 1.8 K's as this seems to suit everyone. I will also look at the Novice situation but this does assume I will be at every event to work it out or we produce a formula that works and other people can use. In addition I will arrange a meeting in February to start working on the Regs for 2005 and anyone competing is allowed to attend (could turn it into a day out about competing in general, invite newbies etc) with the outcome that we have an elected technical committee (2 reps from each class??) that drive the process forward and monitor the results during 2004 season. If the Royce place I am proposing for the awards pans out this has catering facilities and a lecture theatre that would be ideal for this kind of meeting. Can we close the can of worms now 😬 (if I've completely missed the point on the above just arrange to have me shot as I'm too tired to argue) PS... Still looking for confirmation on my other posting regarding the awards thingy and that the Royce place in Northamptonshire is acceptable? Graham Competition Secretary Lydden , Curborough , MIRA , Llandow , Loton Park , Curborough *thumbup*, Aintree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Smith Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 *thumbup* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 *thumbup* MikeW 1600 VX Black/Ali Race No 134 Membership No 6582 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 *thumbup* *thumbup* 😬 Mark D Su77on Se7ens Avoiding the Kerbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenEvans Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Were R400/500 allowed in Class 4 previously? I guess they must have been! Though an R500 on List 1A tyres would be fascinating to watch Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I have the horsepower, if not the price tag... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenEvans Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 But you don't have the weight down to 460kg do you Mike? If you have and you're going to compete in the championship next year then let me know so I can have a major rethink!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 *thumbup*Cheers Graham. Keep up the fantastic work 😬 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Agree with BB and thanks for moderating this. BTW this was informed debate not argument Graham Edited by - Graham Perry on 11 Sep 2003 07:12:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 BB- *thumbup* to everyone else - I will shut up now rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Kipper Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 BB *thumbup* Nice and simple. As I started this, I suppose I could finish it? BB, let me know when. See you all at the Awards thingy. Kipper Fun is not a straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence_Z Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Well that was quick Surely the point in any changes was to give std 1.8's a fair go. But we've jumped from putting std 135 bhp, 18K's into class 2 and 3 to allowing 180 bhp plenum K's in.... mems ecu reduces that to nearer 160 ish and of course it takes only seconds to swap an emereald for a mems. BTW Most early SLR's made a mere 175 There are already classes for modified K's , Class 4 and 5, of course if the drivers are not up to it then they should put their standard parts back on. And if there are more than say 7or 8 of these modifed plenum cars in class 5 then by all means give them their own class. Lawrence (2003 class 5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Lawrence I have bowed under pressure from the members for next year and once the 'technical committee' is set up, the plan is to monitor the situation throughout the next season (2004) in preperation for changes to the 2005. I was asked to look at changes by club members who felt the current regs were being abused and I have to say looking at them there are some very literal interpretations especially in Class 2/3. However I cannot (and will not) make the stand for changes next year if the members don't fully support them but the aim is that the technical committee decide the changes for 2005. Graham Competition Secretary Lydden , Curborough , MIRA , Llandow , Loton Park , Curborough *thumbup*, Aintree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver 21 Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Lawrence I have bowed under pressure from the members for next year and once the 'technical committee' is set up, the plan is to monitor the situation throughout the next season (2004) in preperation for changes to the 2005. I was asked to look at changes by club members who felt the current regs were being abused and I have to say looking at them there are some very literal interpretations especially in Class 2/3. However I cannot (and will not) make the stand for changes next year if the members don't fully support them but the aim is that the technical committee decide the changes for 2005. Graham Competition Secretary Lydden , Curborough , MIRA , Llandow , Loton Park , Curborough *thumbup*, Aintree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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