Manxseven Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 also Wiscombe Park as well, my favourite hill L 7 BDA X Flow Magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Smith Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Ooh, yes, and Wiscombe! More hills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 and Gurston, with the down hill bit at the start L 7 BDA X Flow Magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenEvans Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Don't push your luck chaps, Graham's doing fine with venues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Which is why I ask for any recommendations on speed event training as my driving is certainly a weak link in the chain I think. The MAC run a Sprint School at Curborough. We were told a number of times on Sunday at Prescott that the school there is running courses aimed at existing competitors next year with more running and less time in the classroom. But, IMO, the best way to improve your driving is to drive. And watch more experienced people driving... Which probably means getting beaten a lot! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Smith Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Sorry, yes, Graham is doing an excellent job on venues But a Goodwood sprint would be nice ❗ 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Just a thought....... The current 140 BHP X-power 1.8 K has a metal 'VVC Style' in let manifold and a 52mm TB as std. If class 2 is to have these cars, can the cars without these parts fit them to bring themselves in line with the current engine specs?? If you are going to start changing rules re mems / Emerald then should the debate also include MBE? What about the cars running a X-flow or vauxhall - what ECU did they come with as standard from the factory, and what jets etc in the carbs? How far to take it is the question - I could have the head ported on my car and replace the 46mm tb, I'm still on mems and I *could* end up with much more power than adding a 52mm TB and an Emerald. If everything is std, then what about exhausts, then there is the question of Diffs, ratios, tyres, wheels etc etc? Should they be Caterham only parts or can we use 3rd party manufacturers such as EBD, Raceco, Powerspeed etc?? Lets sit down round a table and discuss this properly. I would like to be involved in the debate, and think it should happen asap, prefereably before the awards dinner as I can't attend (committed elsewhere) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_fletcher Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 I would have said that I'd like a bhp limit on Class 2 to give me a bit more of a chance (something just below what NNs got preferably!), then I remember the time Mr Potter got in a standard (albeit well set up) Academy car and figure that driving ability makes more of a difference than an extra 50bhp ☹️ . I'd definitely like to see a hill climb or two in the events next year though. The final corner at Harewood really sorts out the men from the boys ! Simon 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxseven Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 I would have said it is almost to late now to start changing class structures for next year. Leave it as it is for 2004 season .....but why not say in Jan or Feb next year have a Club Forum (somewhere central on a Sat/Sunday - Gaydon) 🤔 and thrash out a set of regulations for 2005 Just a thought L 7 BDA X Flow Magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Dickens Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Graham never mind all this debate nonsense, you just change the regs as you see fit. Things always get done under a dictatorship Whatever you decide, we'll still love you 😬 The Original MANGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Smith Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 Ooh - Harewood...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 please please no change in class 1. As it is it's the results are down to the ability of the driver as the cars are al VERY similar specs....more horses k series cars would be at an advantage..in my humble opinion........ Venues have been brilliant....anything better would be MORE icing on a FANTASTIC cake Graeme........I need all the points I can get...wouldn't have made any change to the outcome 😬 New tyres for next year and adjustable shocks.....and maybe I'll be right on your heals *tongue* 😬 😬 Whatever changes are made or not......It's the taking part that counts ....and all those of us that have taken part in the Speed Championship have enjoyed it whatever the result..well I have anyway *wink* *wink* It's just another element that demonstrates what a fantastic club we are all members of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 We need evolution and not revolution with this. Small changes only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Kipper Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 As I started this I suppose I had better throw my hat into the ring. If we are going to make any changes then they should only be where change is necessary. I, for one, would be happy to come out to play next year with things exactly as they are. I compete for the fun and the camaraderie which is what our events are all about. If I wanted to be a sprint champion I would compete in the regional or national sprint championships ( which have the under/over 1700cc split and where I don't stand an earthly). Power is not the overiding ingredient of speed. I am sure I am not the only one who would accept that the lowest denominator in the equation is the driver. My car would go faster with a better driver (proved last year when Robert shared the drives and beat me every time) and the first and cheapest upgrade must be to driver skills. Put me in Dave Jackson's car and I would still have trouble beating my current times. This was proved conclusively in Class 2 at Curborough 2 this year with Nick Potter beating all the other K's and XF's in a standard Academy car. Anyway, after all that I have two suggested changes - standard 1800 K's to be moved to Class 2/3 and lady/novice prizes to be awarded on % of class winners time (a little calculation would be need but surely not outside the bounds of BB's magic laptop). If a runaway winner in any one class emerges next year then we think again. As Graham P has posted - evolution not revolution. Here's looking forward to another fantastic year 😬 Kipper Fun is not a straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Kipper Posted September 10, 2003 Author Share Posted September 10, 2003 Mrs Kipper here. All these posts have made me reflect on what several people told me in the paddock when I complained that I couldn't get anywhere near the men's times. I was told that provided I was having fun and my times were improving then I was a winner . Was this a lot of porkies? Thanks to BB and others for great organisation. Mrs Kipper In a class of my own ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I agree with Kipper ..... The point that Nick Potter won class 2 at curborough in a bog std academy car, must shirley indicate that the variety of engines and power is not the key factor ? or at least it wasnt at that particular venue . I would also support moving std 1800K's to class 2/3 . I do believe that there should be a meeting arranged with the top 2 or representatives , from each class to hammer out any radical changes to the structure . These changes should only then be introduced in 2005 , with 12 months notice ?. As for extra venues - if you want them - go and enquire with the circuit owners or organising clubs . Its not *that* difficult to organise a sprint event . Dave . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikes Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 OK – I had better have a say as well. As someone with a slightly modified xflow (RK Supersprint Plus spec – 109bhp at the wheels) and a fairly old chassis (both me and the 7) I was trying to keep up with Colin and Guy with their modified Ks in Class 2. It was my first full year of sprinting and the only choice I made was to go into class 2 because I am too mean to buy tyres that wear out quickly!! Of course, it was only for fun, but as the end of the season approached it got serious enough for us all to either get or think about ditching the windscreen. Didn’t look a great investment as we watched the rain pour down in the morning did it? Like most of the others I really enjoyed the company and the competition and although we often had 1 or 2 who were some way in front, the rest of us were always very close and that made it really exciting. It looks to me that Peter C has got it about right and I definitely agree with the novice, ladies thing as being a %age of the class best – really good idea. It was great to be able to be fairly competitive in a class without having to spend huge amounts. From what I saw it would be a real shame to change the class 1 structure as they had a brilliant battle – and often the times would not have looked too shabby in many other classes! Whatever we do – thanks for all your organisation Graham it was very well done. Comiserations to Dave and Kaspar after Aintree – I do hope they are back next year – just don’t let Dave in Class 2! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Mrs Kipper - you are correct it is all about having fun, my postings with regard class and standard mems plenum debate in class 2/3 is part being devils advocate and part looking after myself, but what ever the regs I will still have fun. However there is just (for me at least) a tiny bit more fun when I am doing well Lawrence - I do not understand why you say Those who want an after market ecu, should go a bit further and have individual TB's anyway. If you did this you would also have to make head mods to take advantage and not everyone wants to this... I like the idea of a meeting to discuss any changes and nothing too radical for this year, as long as it is over a pint and a pie somewhere so count me in... What happened to Dave and Kaspar at Aintree, hope nothing serious... rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Graham I posted a thread on TechTalk regarding the maximum power that can be achieved from a 1.6K and a 1.8K running on a single plenium see here. Oilyhands, the respected K Series expert, has quoted 165BHP from a 1.6K and 180BHP from a 1.8K. That said from his discription of how they would run its not a route I would be willing to take ❗ Hope this helps. Mark D Su77on Se7ens Avoiding the Kerbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Nuts Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Mike, sage words! You were scaring the hell out of me this season with your sprinting! Superb stuff!. For the record, I have about 115bhp at the wheels (I normally quote figures at the crank). Yes, the aeroscreens were interesting! I do a lot of road miles in the 7 and I actually think I may keep it on. I don't know how you felt but in the rain I found it improved visibility no end. Colin's time just goes to show what a pointless exercise the aeroscreen was though from a time point of view but I'm glad I tried it (It was only a few quid for the perspex and about 6 hours to lazily make it). As a matter of interest, what was your speed over the line at Aintree? I saw 107 but it dropped to 104 by the end of the day (increasing headwind perhaps?) Keep your speed up! Guy NN 😳 Lotus @ Herts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 What did happen to Dave and Kaspar at Aintree 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I am writing here from the POV of having some expertise in tuning a K-series engine. Ok, why did I think it was important that the ECU stay as standard MEMS... 🤔 Mostly because it limits the cams you can use in a K and still get the thing to idle and run. It is also easy to inspect. I hadn't realised that the latest plenums are different. I don't think they make any significant difference. I think it is important not to allow VVC heads because of their big valves. The same goes for VHPD heads, but they are more difficult to distinguish - you need to look at casting numbers. You can also imagine a fully-ported DVA head flowing as much as a VVC, but with the plenum and MEMS it would be difficult to get it producing power. Under this regime, the optimum cheat engine would be a big valve engine with a modified fuel pressure regulator. It would idle like a bastard and the fuelling would be hit and miss, for the potential advantage of a few horses. Few people would live with such a conversion and it is not in the spirit of the L7C competition to ruin your enjoyment of the car for the sake of competitive advantage. A different way of doing it is brought to mind by chutney's:never mind all this debate nonsense, you just change the regs as you see fit. Besides the defined class breaks, what if we allowed BB a bit of discretion in handling borderline cases. AFAICS, I seem to have defined a specific set of conditions to just Guy's disadvantage. Maybe the MEMS stipulation is unnecessary. Maybe the MEMS only stipulation could be kept in reserve for 2005 to dissuade people from upgrading to a long-term losing spec, or spread the investment of a TB upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmar Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 the debate around what to do with the k's is all well and fine, but I am still concerned that potentially we are looking at standard K's (inc ss) Vs the skys the limit x-flows and yes it is harder to extract the potential in the x-flows and getting good times, but the results this year show they are the engine to have, and with this potential rule change this adavantage is even greater... just my thoughts again I would have thought due to the good nature of everyone in classes 2 & 3 that I have come across a simple gentlemens/ladies agreement around only 'standard non modified heads' could be agreed on, make it a rule to make it official if you like. And in the case of anyone found abusing this would be bannnished from the championships forever, forced to buy all class 2&3 competitors a brie a dn bacon roll and Mira, and forced to run around the double lap of curbugger in an outfit to be decided by the competition secetary 😬 AFAIK there is only 1 non standard head running in either of these classes Wouldn't know if there would be a problem if someone had to have a head skimmed, is this a n advantage power wise 🤔 rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted September 10, 2003 Area Representative Share Posted September 10, 2003 PP, Dave, unintentionally, attempted one of the steeplechase jumps on his last run. The jump faired significantly better than the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powderpuff Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 oops , as long as he is ok that's the main thing, sad news though ☹️ PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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