French Flame Thrower Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 I have a reasonably tuned x flow and was wondering what the advantages are of 3D mapping and also as I live in France if it is worthwhile is it something I can fit and set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 I can only speak from a 16V XE perspective. The Alpha Weber one I fitted in 2001 improved driveablility and gave much better fuel economy on the motorway. I was getting 32mpg on the run up to Scotland. Driveability cos the advance curve can be much more appropriate if you say crack the throttle wide open at low revs as the TPS knows what you have done. With 2D the crack speed sensor see the cranks winding up speed and dribbles in advance accordingly. With 2D your banana's will glow cherry red while driving on the motorway through over fuelling and low advance as the ECU simply doesn't know where the throttle is and has to make safe assumptions of low advance and you end up mushing the throttle to get the power and chucking fuel in uslessly. You can see them glowing as a passenger if you look through the bonnet looves at dusk / night. With RPM and throttle position known i.e. light load it can give you a safe 40+ deg advance at the rpm and throttle loads you see on the motorway. this figure might be less for an XF but the good setups are running ~34 deg max advance I believe... The next big step for me was EFI in the form of Throttlebodies. Did that this winter... Have to say it was a much bigger step up from 3D to EFI than 2D to 3D was. some have Throttle bodied XF's too. Live mapping mine I can see I have 47.1 deg advance on the motorway at 3500 - 4500. (This map is a safe map for 95 octane too!) As soon as you jump on the throttle this drops as the ECU dances through the map on fuelling and advance. So, summary, Its worth it to go 3D IMO. There should be off the shelve advance curves but get an ECU you have the SW for and can change things. I found I had a little pinking on the Weber alpha at low revs when booting it and on 95 octane fuel. 97 octane hardly did it if at all. I had to go to Webcon in Sunbury to sort it (FOC!). Would take 2 mins on a DIY system. Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Speedy Steve's Workshop, Servicing, setup, fitting here Edited by - stevefoster on 16 Aug 2003 09:55:33 Edited by - stevefoster on 17 Aug 2003 10:28:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Lots in the archives re 3D and crossflows and some glowing reviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team Mcalvert Posted August 16, 2003 Leadership Team Share Posted August 16, 2003 Hello Hugh, I can honestly say that this was probably the best thing that I ever had changed on my crossflow. At part throttle, it made the car a much smoother engine, while retaining that wonderful Crossflow grown when given full welly. I've also found that in normal use, it's improved fuel economy by about 8%. The alpha system also has a rev-limiter which I have found invaluable! All the best - Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casbar Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Probably get shot for this, as one shouldn't advise against the wonders of 3D, probably because of the money it costs, and once purchased, its too late But, I went from Lucas Comp system to Webber 3D, because I bought it second hand. My views are as follows: It does give better throttle response, it does give a more stable idle, but, if I had paid the full new asking price, compared to the Lucas system, I would not have felt it was value for money. But if you have loads of dosh, then go for it. I have a fully tuned Xflow, forged pistons, 244 cam etc, and in my humble oppinion, the Lucas system was good enough and certainly better value for money. If you are running hotter cams, then its a different story. Saying that, I wouldn't change back now I have the 3D fitted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Yes ,I think I agree. The benefits it offers are greater with hotter cams, although I found it a worthwhile investment on my 234 cammed car. However, now it has a 264 it really is very driveable in the low and mid range Edited by - Graham Perry on 17 Aug 2003 08:04:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Flame Thrower Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Many thanks guys. Still one question..... canI set it up if I get the 3 d system? French Flame Thrower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asklepios Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Yes, but to optimise needs a rolling road session with an agent who has the software . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 As far as I could see the Omex 3d system is pluggable into a laptop as is the GEMS jobbie, I've just bought an Omex ECU from Raceline for my imminent zetec install. I think with a carb setup there shouldn't be much playing with ignition timings if you can get a decent map pre installed, I believe it's when you get into the realms of injection there's more things to twiddle with/benefits to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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