Which Caterham?

[petrosgan]

The question i can't get out of my mind the last month is, can i buy a kit classic and then gradually replace parts until i create

a Caterham with a superlight R500 engine and a good performance? Can the chassis

stand all the power? Is it a very expensive idea? The thing is that i want to build my Caterham, i would like a VVC for example but i haven't heard of a VVC in a kit form.

Can i upgrade the VVC engine to get more power, around 200 bhp? Which is the best for buying and gradually upgrading?

Please help me guys!

I think i got the Caterham bug and theres no antidote for it.

[murph7355]

It would seem that the universally accepted "right way to go" for this type of thing is to buy a Superlight 1800 and take it from there if you're wanting to go the gradual upgrade route...

 

I'm 99% sure the VVC is available in kit form, but have been (very) wrong before! It can be upgraded to give more power but you end up throwing away the VVC gubbins (though the head on the VVC is a very good start point). It's more than possible to get 200bhp+ from a base 1600/1800 K series though.

 

Reason for going the SL route is that you get a lot of expensive kit thrown in (6spd, LSD, big brakes etc) so it's much more economical to do it this way. I'm not sure if the SL is available with the VVC engine. I don't think it is...

 

 

C7 AJM

 

Edited by - Andy Murphy on 14 Feb 2001 11:12:50

[V7 SLR]

The VVC cannot be upgraded as such. The ECU which controls the fuelling and ignition is not-reprogrammable and is for the VVC mechanism only. The cams used for the VVC are specifically designed for this application too.

 

That said, the VVC is a brilliant head for an upgrade, although you'll end up junking the ECU and cams. To be honest, you'd end up junking any Caterham's ECU and cams if you upgraded, it's just that the VVC's price is such a premium. Seems a shame to buy it to junk it. You can buy VVC heads separately.

 

I don't think the VVC represents a good value car. The power delivery is OK, but nothing more. A standard 1.8K can achieve supersport power by junking the ECU and replacing with an Emerald M3DK. You should read CCC from a couple of months ago for this... Also you should read Dave Andrews' web site at http://hometown.aol.com/Dvandrews/index.htm where all you need to know about K series engines can be found.

 

I don't think it is economically sound to upgrade a Classic to an SLR500. The amount of the car you would junk would represent the purchase of an R500 twice over. The engine alone.... I don't want to think about it.

 

You can buy a 1.6 Superlight which will give you everything you need for a fantastic "starter" car for upgrades, or buy an SLR with a standard 1.8 engine and mag wheels. This shouldn't cost more than a superlight, but you can add in a dry sump to the purchase cost and use the car until you can afford the engine conversions.

 

How much have you got to start with, and how much will you want to spend over how long on upgrades..?

 

Edited by - V7 SLR on 14 Feb 2001 12:00:10

[Red SLR]

I got a 1600 Superlight, now plan to upgrade the engine to about 190bhp in the end.

 

I am aiming for 165bhp though first.

 

Simon

 

X777CAT

[murph7355]

Nig - don't forget that the K-series being tested in the CCC article didn't appear to be giving full power and, I think, was having other little hiccoughs in standard trim (I haven't got the mag' in front of me so could be wrong!). I'd regard the gains achieved as a max (or at least in the upper end of what's achievable by simply changing the ECU).

 

Simon - make sure you do plenty of background reading (think you have anyway) on your upgrade path. If you're wanting to start with lower power then aim high (go the whole hog straight up! It's great fun!!) I'd advise being very careful with things like cam and exhaust choice. The last thing you want to be doing when searching for those last few bhp is ditching items you've only had for a year or so. For this reason I'd be more inclined to steer away from "kits" if I were you, and buy the individual bits that will suit your long term needs (by talking to the likes of Piper, and firing questions to this list and/or the se7ens list).

 

I'm more than happy for people to contact me off list about upgrades if they prefer. I'm a mechanical incompetent and all I've learnt has been from the likes of Dave Andrews, Mike Bees and PC, but I can give the info I have (especially on having the work done for you).

 

C7 AJM

[amosian]

My advice for what it is worth, is to get yourself a tidy second-hand Seven, run it for a year or two to make sure that you are getting what you want from it, then sell it (keep it tidy and you won't lose much) and get a 1.6 Superlight. You may find that the extra performance of the Superlight is pretty much wasted on a new owner as you need to learn to drive the cars before you can exploit their extra performance.

 

In that respect, a Classic that you could upgrade would be ideal. But when you look at the second-hand prices, you will see that the first owner of the Seven always takes the biggest loss. The price you see to buy a kit usually requires a thousand or two extra spent on it to make it how you want.

 

I bought a used 1.4k-series with a view to keeping it a couple of years then upgrading to a different car. But then I am not mechanically minded.

 

In short, it's difficult to make a wrong decision in respect of the Seven, but I think that upgrading a Classic to the performance you want would be hugely expensive.

 

Now I've confused myself!?!

[petrosgan]

Thank you guys, the more i learn, the more confused i get! So you think that a VVc is not a good example for upgrading, i thought you would say this. With all the new info. i've been given i've got a whole bunch of new questions. Is a used superlight a good idea (not the R500)? If i buy a 1.8 superlight, can i fit a new R500 engine, or upgrade the existing one to such standards? Did anyone ha d any problems with the riding height? I don't have a fortune to spend, that's why i want something good which i will be able to upgrade afterwards (that's for V7 SLR).

I hope you guys have a nice weather over there coz i'm looking out of my window and it's a perfect day for a Caterham, but i don't have one. Greedings from Greece.

Petros.

 

[Bob Corb]

I've opted to buy an SLR style chassis with watts link and no spare wheel but I've asked to keep the fibreglass panels and have the engine bay configured for VVC, I've got a 2nd hand VVC engine in the garage waiting to go in, but I'm going to fit a piper KK1 270 cam kit and fit MBE engine management as I plan to go for mental power in the future. I'm going to buy all the upgrades from the start for the chassis and monkey about with the engine in a year or so.

 

The other thing I plan to do is buy R500 style mags but direct from MB wheels for £165eas exc. The car will need adjustable suspension platforms to use 13" wheels.

 

All in this lot will cost £19K and go like stink from the start even on std inlet plenum (but large throttle body) it will make 165BHP. I was tempted to go the 2nd hand route but I am after something very specific and want to build it myself.

 

Its cheaper to build you own 230BHP engine, R500 engine is about £12K apparently.

 

For info the base price for the starter chassis kit was £4995, the change no watts link/no spare was free, the big brake master was £138, carbon fibre dash £150 (what a poser) and black windscreen was about £70 the total without delivery £5300, I've got until april 30th to find the balance, better start saving...

[Red SLR]

I still think, if you can, get an SLR. Then you wont have to mess about with mods etc.

 

If you cant get that then get a 1600 Superlight, and mod the engine.

 

You can pick up a nice R or S plate SLR for about 22 - 24 K.

 

And a SL1600 in T reg will set you back about 19K.

 

If you buy a Classic, then upgrade I cant see much change out of 20k.

 

Simon.

 

X777CAT

[robmar]

Bob - 19K for the car without an engine, the SL with an engine is 18,995, surely you could have bough the SL then sold the engine for a couple of grand or even used that as a base route for upgrade, and you would still have your VVC as well

 

ROb