JamesTiptree Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Hi, I don't usually post as I don't have a caterham (yet). But I do like to keep an eye on the forum and now I need some advice. Next weekend is "run what you brung" at santa pod, organised by 'usc' (ultimate street car). I have never done a quarter mile before and was hoping the likes of arnie could give me some advice. I am racing a decatted '99 1.8 hgt punto, in the under 1750 cc class. This is a n/a class for people wanting to race. You get three runs. Tyres aren't a problem as they are low, but still comfortably legal. I intend to take out all dead weight, the rear seats and the like. On top I'll fill the car quarter full of optimax (not that this makes a massive difference but weight and ron must help to an extent). Can you give me general advice, and advice on how to start and how to drive. I'm confident with the basics, but not so hot on the tricks and so forth. Please help! regards James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Its a Mr dave Edmunds you need to speak to James - no idea if technique is different for front wheel drive cars etc - must be. Whatever - have fun! New site! mycaterham.com here 50,000miles in 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 If you're racing then being able to start on the light is important, if just going for a time then it doesn't matter. The techniques may differ. OTOH a Punto is going to be pretty slow, and I don't think you're going to suffer wild wheelspin, so just nail it and change gear when it stutters... Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTiptree Posted August 3, 2003 Author Share Posted August 3, 2003 For a start, it's nothing like as quick as a Caterham. Very little is. It is the fastest punto they do. Standard 135 bhp, 0-60 in a respectable 8.2 seconds (this is without the decat and different induction system it has). Nail it and change gear when it stutters? I hope that isn't an insinuation to bounce it off the rev limiter... If I nail it then it does wheelspin a lot and dumping the clutch into second gear makes wheelspin as well. Any other thoughts? I hope Mr Edmunds reads this, I'd appreciate his thoughts. Yes, I will enjoy it! James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 As I am sure most people will agree, its not about how fast something ultimately is, its the ability to get the most out of what you have - thats the skill. Of course that is ignored by most of us in our continual quest for more power/speed 😬 I had a demo of this when I had a few laps with Austin Kinsella instructing next to me around Mas du Clos. I found out whole new areas of our cars handling performance simply because I was going much fsater after his help, and was reaching areas I had not been to before. Power upgrades can wait - I want to sort out the handling/driver stuff now. ...whlst perhaps looking at a *little* power increase... 😬 New site! mycaterham.com here 50,000miles in 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ranson Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Standard 135 bhp, 0-60 in a respectable 8.2 seconds (this is without the decat and different induction system it has). You're going to be running 16 or 17 second quarters. In absolute terms this is pretty slow. It'll still be fun... Nail it and change gear when it stutters? I hope that isn't an insinuation to bounce it off the rev limiter... If I nail it then it does wheelspin a lot and dumping the clutch into second gear makes wheelspin as well. Well, it depends where the limiter is relative to max power, but in the lower gears run it out to the limiter. The track at Santa Pod will probably be grippier than the road, you will get less wheelspin. You shouldn't get more than a 'chirp' on the first/second shift. Just use full throttle.... I hope we'll get a report here? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se7enmad Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 two teenie weenie tips from me... a. if you're really looking for the best timing don't release the throttle as you're changing gear - to do it just don't really dip into redline as revs will shoot up as you do this - the clutch will not like this though!!! b. practice your gearchanges - apart from wheelspin and power limitations, I guess third place comes to time lost in gearchanging Antonella 1998 Caterham Classic (Malta) .. still not spotted ! my site here more photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTiptree Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 Excellent, this was the sort of thing I was looking for. In absolute terms, it's slow. But then it'll be quicker than anything I've driven on a quarter mile! (having not done it before!) So basically, to stop the revs shooting up when I dip the clutch (limiter is at 7400 rpm), I need to clutch at about 6500-odd, as it's inevitable that the revs will rise suddenly at this point. First few times might be interesting as I'll be wary of hitting the limiter. That'll surely involve an incredibly quick gearchange not to run into the limiter? You'll definately get a report! Although I've no doubt my quarter mile times will be the source of amusement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 what's the problem with hitting the limiter? To powershift, keep your right foot planted on the throttle pedal and dip the clutch whilst pulling (or pushing) the gearlever then release the clutch all done as quickly as possible....the rev limiter merely stops you damaging the engine by overrevving so let it do its job 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Lower your front tyre pressures to about 15 psi, and increase your rear tyre pressures to reduce rolling resistance. If you have adjustable shock, then set your rear shocks as hard as they go, when you lunch the back of the car will want to squat down (good for rear wheel drive, bad for front wheel drive), this will help a little. Burn out, try three small burns, instead of one, but get plenty of heat into the front tyres. Don’t run with a cold engine, remember your oil takes about three times the length of time to warm up when compared to the water. Near worn out road tyres don’t give as much grip as new freshly scrubbed road tyres, road tyres generate grip from the flex of the tyre blocks in the tread, the more worn the tread block the less flex, the less grip. Road tyres do not act like slicks when they are bald! Hope this helps. PS remember to reset your tyre pressures and shock before your set of home. Chris.... H15 SVN Get it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTiptree Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 15 psi? They're running 34 at the front and 32 at the rear currently. I understand the grip idea, but surely there is more rolling resistance with pressures that low? James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevSull Too Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 The grip you will gain will be more beneficial than the losses introduced by rolling resistance, just make sure the rears are nice and hard, fronts nice and soft (not the other way around...) 😬You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTiptree Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 excellent. thanks very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Good advice re tyre pressures (I used to drag race a Mk1 XR2 and this did help). Remember though it's the driven tyres that you deflate and the undriven tyres you inflate - I've seen many people try the opposite as a result of Chinese whispers. It's all about the start and particularly the first 60ft so make sure you pick up your timing tickets and analyse them - a 0.25 sec improvement over the first 60 ft will improve your 1/4 mile time by may be as much as 0.50 secs all other things remaining equal. Look up what the standard car does and see if you can achieve that time...or may be even better. Speed across the line is a good guide to power for similar types of vehicle eg Hot Hatch Etc.. Be prepared to queue for as much as 1.5 hrs per run. You can save a few pounds in weight by shedding your spare tyre/interior items if you really get hooked. Don't forget to take your driving licence. Cheers David. Home of BDR700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Dont lift as you go over the line, some rookies lift as they get near - stay flat till you pass the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmandsd Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 ...to maximise terminal speed as effect on elapsed time will be marginal. Home of BDR700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTiptree Posted August 4, 2003 Author Share Posted August 4, 2003 Thank you all for your help. Much appreciated. Hope some of you turn up to enter in the "under 1750 cc class" lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I could enter in the >5600cc class..... 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTiptree Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 well, see the post in chitchat for details! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Joe Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 😬most important, I assume the tree a .5 second delay as the US ones are. When you see the bottom yellow light up go for it. If you see the green light you are late. Brain to foot to movement takes about .5 secs so the above should give you a great reaction time. Good luck Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesTiptree Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 hmm, interesting, I may save that for the second and third runs and possibly more should I get through. I'll be weary this first time though, safety and not false starting are my priorities Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se7enmad Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Smokin Joe, we use 0.4 sec changes in Malta. Good advice about changing on yellow but also depends on individual's reaction time so practise is a prerequisite. I forgot what neural reaction times are but they should be around the order of 0.25s, but I'll check that out pm in some neuro literature. Our club gives away VP racing fuel to the best reaction times in bracket racing - and a few guys regularly enter within the 4.1s range - that is effectively a .1s after a possible redlight! They also manage to be consistently fast enough to avoid redlight so I guess reaction times can be trained. BTW James, dumping clutch on yellow has no safety repercussions apart from the tyres!! I would rather be getting redlights than a poor launch. Enjoy your day and practice as much as you can! Antonella 1998 Caterham Classic (Malta) .. still not spotted ! my site here more photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se7enmad Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 BTW go to maltadragracing dot com and find the test yourself icon on the right side. A bit of practice from home Careful though as test is based on .400 so you might get redlights at Santa Pod if it is really a .500 😬 Antonella 1998 Caterham Classic (Malta) .. still not spotted ! my site here more photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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