V5 and MOT's

tbhall777 · February 6, 2001

I have a seven SLR pre SVA, that was amatuer built and supplied as a CKK in May 98.

The V5 says the car was registered as new by caterham on 1/4/98.

It is now approaching the time that the car will have to pass it's first MOT.

The pre SVA SLR's are non CAT and I want it to stay that way, with a visible

smoke only emmission test.

I have also purchased a reg Number which I intend to transfer before MOT time.

Question:- Should I inform the Vehicle Registration Office of the fact that the

car was amatuer built or keep quiet. Caterham registered the car to beat the SVA

deadline which was imminent around this date.

Edited by - tbhall777 on 6 Feb 2001 21:44:38

mark.hall · February 6, 2001

I would keep quiet. Roll up for your MOT and tell the spotty oik (sorry, MOT tester) that the engine was built by you, or other unqualified amateur, and is subject to a sight only test. If he raises any objections, ask him to check his book. I have to do this every year.........

Super_Rich_Bernie · February 7, 2001

The MOT tester I use said 'I like these kit cars, don't have to bother with emissions or any of that rubbish' maybe I'm lucky, he didn't check any documentation or build dates.

He also told me that MOT staions will be having computers installed in the very near future, with a link to the DVLA computer.

This will give the info on type, date of first registration etc, and show exactly what needs to be checked.

It will also take in and record the mileage details of each and every car tested.

It sounded a positive move to me. Clarity as to whether the car needs an emissions test or not, and some more protection against buying a clocked car.

MOT man was not so keen on learning IT skills though.

Jonathan

tbhall777 · February 8, 2001

IMPORTANT

Here is the definitive answer from Mr.Unwin Himself.

Dear Terry

Any Caterham built before July 98 needs only to comply with visible smoke

requirements as they are all deemed to be amateur builds. Even if the car

was fully built at the factory, before July 98 it was only ever supplied to

the customer still requiring work to qualify for amateur build status. That

is not to say that the car was not pushed from production to the service

area where the Service Department would finish the car. As you may imagine,

this is a bit of a "grey" area. As far as the MOT station is concerned, if

the car was built before July 98 it is amateur built. If customers had any

problems I always suggested (when I was service manager at Caterhams) that

they asked the MOT station to ring me at the factory. We would then explain

the situation. From memory, I believe it is section 6, sub-section 4 of the

MOT handbook.

Please feel free to come back to me if you have any problems.

Regards.

Len

Mike Bees · February 8, 2001

Eh? In order to supply fully built cars Caterham put the car through Type Approval, which meant that when cats became compulsory for new cars those which were supplied new & built by Caterham had to have cats fitted. Does the above mean that there was a loophole such that even a Type Approved manufacturer-built car could get away with only a visible smoke test at MOT time?

Mike

tbhall777 · February 8, 2001

It would appear so, but only for cars built Pre SVA. i.e. July 98.

Luke Beaumont · February 8, 2001

Bugger, does that mean that post-July 98 MOTs do the full emissions monty, whether amateur built or not?

Luke

Mike Bees · February 9, 2001

Luke - if you had to do the full emissions monty at SVA then yes, AIUI.

Mike

Luke Beaumont · February 9, 2001

Buggery. We need a new emissions class to deal with occasional use vehicles sad.gif

Luke

tbhall777 · February 10, 2001

Emissions testing covers both Diesel and petrol engines.

There are some general considerations:

Kit cars and amateur built vehicles are regarded as pre 1st August 1975 vehicles for the purposes of MOT emissions testing and are subject to a visual check only. The age of the engine is not taken into account. SVA(single vehicle approval) introduces some problems and these are complex, the SVA manual is the source of information. In a nutshell all vehicles get a "visual check" and vehicles first used after 1/8/75 or with an engine manufactured after this date get a metered check or a CAT test if they are listed in the emissions handbook or are on the emissions tester database. After August 1995 they get a CAT test. Amateur built vehicle SVA emissions tests are based on the vehicle build date unless there is proof that the engine is earlier. If a date cannot be determined, until 31 March 2001 they will get a non CAT test. From the 1st April 2001 the effective date will be assumed to be 1st August 1997, i.e they will get a CAT test unless there is proof of the date of manufacture of the engine. Also, dual fuel (petrol/gas) are tested in both modes.

Personal imports are tested according to date of first use. To claim exemption, a letter from the vehicle manufacturer must be produced at the time of test.

Modified engines must still meet the requirements.

An older engine fitted to a vehicle will be tested to the age of the engine (evidence needed). A newer engine fitted to an older car will be tested to the age of the car i.e whichever is the oldest.

Vehicles which are not passenger cars are tested to different emissions limits in most cases. A passenger car is constructed to carry passengers, has no more than 5 seats excluding the driver, does not exceed 2500kg gross weight and is not a goods vehicle i.e pick-up, van or truck.

It will be necessary for evidence of first used dates to be produced in some cases (personal number plates, 1987's for seat belts and 1992's/94's for emissions) i.e V5 reg document or VE103 for leased/hired vehicles. Some vehicles may have been stored for long periods before being distributed by manufacturers. In these cases, if the vehicle was manufactured at least 6 months before its date of first use then the date of manufacture is used for test requirements.

Engines must be thoroughly warmed up and the oil temperature tested prior to testing (80 degrees C for most "CAT" tests although some are as low as 40 and 80 degrees C for Diesels). It's permissable for the emissions test to be carried out as soon as the vehicle arrives (environmentally friendly too) as long as the rest of the test is carried out on the same day by the same tester.

Any obstructions at the tailpipe which prevent the test probe being inserted will result in failure.

Luke Beaumont · February 11, 2001

Groo, doncha luv beaurocracy wink.gif

Thanks for posting that. When my brain cools down I'll run through it again.

Luke

SLR No.77 · February 13, 2001

It just gets more & more vague.

Caterham build manual (circa 1995), section 14.5, optional extras - competition 4-1 exhaust system:

"Please note that Vauxhall and Rover engines manufactured after 1.1.93 must have a catalyst to pass the MOT test. We do not offer a 4-1 competition catalytic exhaust system."

Telephone call to Caterham in early 1999 as I was approaching my first MOT confirmed this, and I was again told I would need a catalytic system to pass the MOT test. Basically, "if that is what the build manual says........". Oh sh*t!

Checked with my usual MOT station to be told (as everybody else) that if it's amature build it needs no catalyst. Passed. My MOT man doesn't cut corners either, hence my nice shiney new indicator repeaters which are a definate for all 7s and have been for years!

Stu.

excess baggage · February 14, 2001

My MOT tester doesn't cut corners either but he seems to take the view that if the repeaters aren't there they can't be failed. I doubt that the fact that he removed the flared wings c/w repeaters, fixed ally strip behind holes, filled holes, painted complete car, fitted FIA bar, painted that, fitted cycle wings, painted them and then discovered that you wouldn't get a fag paper between wheel and wing, let alone loads of wires had anything to do with his decision. He is just a sensible bloke!

PS. His guvnors also run a fully race prepared 2 and a bit litre Zetec 7 and a bike engined single seater, so that rules out any bias!!!?

mike ashurst · March 8, 2001

Len,

My 1.6K supersport registered '97, has just failed on the emissions test on CO. does your post mean that i can go back to the tester and say sorry you've got it wrong you shouldn't have tested it.

He looked in his book and it was listed as a car that required the test.

Mike

Mike Bees · March 8, 2001

Mike - does it say "amateur built" or "kit built" on the V5? If so then the MOT tester needs to read the right bit of his book. If not then I believe that he's correct.

Mike

mike ashurst · March 8, 2001

Mike,

thanks for the quick response.

Can't find anything on the V5 referring to "kit" or "amateur", so I suppose that means I'm done for. Problem is, the CO reading was up to 1.2 which is bout 4 times what it should be, and on top of that, he couldn't get it to idle at less than 900 RPM so it failed the idle test as well. (Even though it seems to run fine to my ear he said it sounded "lumpy" - bloody cheek!)

Any suggestions as to what I should do next?

Mike

Mike Bees · March 8, 2001

I'm assuming in that case that the car was built & supplied "ready-to-go" by Caterham, i.e. no work required by the original purchaser.

Is the cat still in place?

Was everything properly warmed up when the test was done?

It could be the lambda sensor not working properly.

Supersports are a bit lumpy on idle.

What's wrong with 900rpm?

Mike

mike ashurst · March 8, 2001

Mike,

Yes I think that's probably the answer, I'm 3rd owner, but the documents seem to suggest it was bought ready built.

Don't laugh here, but I'm not sure if there is a cat or not, how do I distinguish it from a normal silencer?

It was well warmed up before hand.

It's only done 5000 miles so the sensor should be OK?

The revs display on the emissions computer was indicating red, and he said it had to be below 900 (the print out says 880)to get in the green. The only way he could get it down there was by me with the car in gear dragging the clutch! To be fair, the print out actually said it passed on idle speed and CO, so if I can crack the CO at fast idle I'll probably be OK.

Thanks,

Mike

John · March 8, 2001

Just get it properly tuned and it should be OK then. Tickover sounds like its too high as well.

John

tbhall777 · March 8, 2001

Here is the definitive answer from Mr.Unwin Himself.

READ THIS; ALLREADY IN THIS THREAD.

IF YOUR CAR WAS BUILT PRE SVA (JULY 98) YOUR OK.