kim Posted February 5, 2001 Share Posted February 5, 2001 Is there a big difference between fully synthetic oil brands? I have been running my xflow 1600 for the last 3 years on Shell Helix 5-30W. At £30 for 4 litres it is expensive compared to Comma Syner-G 5/40W fully synthetic at £20 for 5 litres. Can anyone out there advise? It's not that i want to be a cheap skate but why waste money if there is no discernable difference to the performance characteristics of different brands. Besides I understand that Comma sponsor Caterham! Thanks in anticipation Kim Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted February 5, 2001 Share Posted February 5, 2001 According to Comma, SynerG 5w/40 is exactly the same as the discontinued Mobil 1 of the same SAE rating from a few years ago. SynerZ is the same as the current 0w/40 I run SynerG in my engine (280bhp Vaux) and having just dismantled it after 14000 miles without any work other than a bearing inspection I have found next to zero wear on all parts except the bronze valve guides (which have considerably shorter life than the iron variety fitted to all standard spec engines. I think therefore thats probabky a recommendation......... Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted February 5, 2001 Author Share Posted February 5, 2001 Arnie Thanks for the reply. Nuff said I'll buy it tomorrow. Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 For a X-flow, I'd consider running good quality mineral oil or semi synthetic. Apparently fully synthetic oils are more prone to "washing off" with petrol. There is a belief that with carbs which tend to run rich, mineral oils are better at resisting this washing off. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Use 20/50 of any variety. Valvoline Racing 20/50 is a good quality mineral oil. Millers do a semi synthetic 20/50. Both are less than £25 for 5 litres. Tran-x sell Millers (www.tran-x.com) and so do Triple S powder coating (www.triple-s.co.uk). Others must also, but not sure who. Burtons sell Valvoline. John John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 A 20W-anything will be very thick when it's cold. The number before the W is a measure of the oils resistance to thickening as the temperature drops - no engine wants a treacly oil when it's cold. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforward Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Just done mine in my annual service and for the second year not using a synthetic oil but 15/40 Valvoline, but I don't do track days. £2.99 per litre and yes mines a 1600 x/flow to and is really on song now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I have heard Crisp N Dry Veg Oil is very good, you can cook chips while driving. wink.gif X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Er.......Cosworth specify 20W 50 for their 2.0L Turbo as fitted to Sierra's. I don't want to start another heated discussion about the why's and wherefores, but the Turbo Cossie also uses hydraulic followers, like some K's and Vx's. Based on the various opinions on here previously about oil thickness and hydraulic followers, as well as film strength, perhaps a modern 20W 50 isn't as bad as we think. I'm sure Cosworth spent a considerable amount of time in R&D determining specification for oil, especially when a Turbo is involved. JMHO and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Crisp N Dry, Crisp N Dry!!! Come on.... it will give that nice chip shop smell from the exhaust! X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Nice chip shop smellquestion.gif Haven't you ever heard of Castrol Rquestion.gif If a more evocative smell exists, I'd like to know what it is. Apart from the obvious, of courseblush.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I wonder what would happen if you put veg oil or similar in an engine? I bet it would produce a good smoke screen! X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Sewell Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I thought that Caterham specified 15W40 for the x-flows. This is well catered for by Castrol Magnatec for basic engines!!!! I have used this for the last 3 years or so with regular oil changes with no apparent detrimental effect to my engine. My understanding was that fully synthetic was primarily aimed at extended service intervals and that almost any oil of the correct viscocity would work if it was changed regularly enough. No doubt Roger King has ideas on this area, and for one of his precision built engines (rather than the South African built pump engines) a beter quality oil may have some benefit. Donning Nomex underwear and standing well back.... Cheers Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Blatman - once up to running temperature a 20W50 won't be any different to a 5W50 or a 10W50. The number before the W is a measure of the oil's resistance to thickening in the cold, the lower the number the more resistant the oil is to thickening - so in cold climes, and if you do a lot of starting up from cold, then the lower this number the better. The number after the W is a measure of the oil's resistance to thinning in heat. The higher the number the more resistant it is. In arduous conditions (like in a hard-used high-power engine, or in a hot climate) you want a good high number here. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I understand about the viscosity numbers and their meanings. I was alluding to (badly I'll admit) the cold weather issue. I would want to know how much thicker a 20W is at 0 degrees c, compared to a 15W or 10W. Would it be that significantquestion.gif I used the Cosworth as an example due to the similarity of spec with regard to hydraulic followers, and the fact that Cossies are, potentially, used all year round, so would be subject to the lowest of temperature starts. I think it's fair to say that most of us use more sensible car's when it's that cold, although going out in temperatures not much above freezing is something lot's of us do. Given these thoughts, would a 20W be that detrimental, when compared to a 15W or 10W. And if it's just a percentage answer, ie 10W is half as thick as 20W, then no furhter explaination is required. Phewwink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Double posting server reconnection malarkey. Sorryblush.gif Edited by - blatman on 9 Mar 2001 13:01:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Is that not the longest delay on a double post you have ever seen>? X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Yeah, I'm supposed to be working, and customers keep getting in the way, plus, my network server is REALLY slow today. Mind you there are about 10,000 people logged on to my system at work at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 W e s t f i e l d owner becomes Deity shock!!!! Mind you, Simon owns one now, don't youwink.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I should have but it suffered a slight mechanical failure the other day so the current owner is getting it sorted. X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 When I posted 20/50, I still believe that I am correct. The original posting was asking for reference to a X-Flow, which thinner oils are not ideally suited to, due to the engines poor manufacturing tolerances. Burtons recommend 20/50, so thats good enough for me. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Mmmmffff. Edited by - Mike Bees on 9 Mar 2001 14:26:22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 John, Why would you want an oil that is thick when it is cold, even with the tolerances of a crossflow? I understand that an oil that stays thicker for older engines whilst it is hot is good and that to have an oil that stays thick whilst it is hot may be a little thicker when it is cold (!) but there seems to be little logic in having thick cold oil in your cold and vulnerable engine if you don't need to. More to the point. Has anybody ever had a failure due to the wrong oil? I only know of one - that being Brian Fitzsimons who after discussing it with an oil company (I think) says he would NEVER put synthetic in a crossflow. Even Castrol RS which was pretty thick stuff. The reasons given were as I mentioned earlier. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Thanks Alex, that's what I was trying to say (thick cold oil), but all that came out was 'Mmmmffff'. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger King Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 S'pose I might as well stick my oar in here. If your Crossflow is in good condition then I personally would like to see it on something like a 10w/50. Unfortunately this seems to be a bit of an odd viscosity. In practice the Mobil 1 15/50 racing is excellent, especially if you're competing (and Halfords sell it). On the road we find that Mobil 1 0W/40 seems OK, but Comma Syner G at 5w/50 is probably preferable. It is nice to see a little bit of viscosity when cold, simply so that the oil can cling to some poorly lubricated surfaces such as the cam lobes. I have never understood the idea that an old engine design should use an old type of oil - provided the machining tolerances are to modern standards I think you should use a modern oil. The difference when you strip an engine that has been running on synthetic is marked - clean components, less wear, no charred oil on the underside of the piston crowns etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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