zak Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 HI, I have a VVC roadsport with a standard wet sump and non adjustable platforms. Money is big issue as I havent got any. 😬 Was trying to buy a second hand dry sump system £££ but that also encounters possible problems I am told for the vvc. Does anyone have any experience or advice re making a sump guard or skid plate for the front edge of the sump which has an attractive 90 degree angle designed it would appear to catch everything - I have 20mm ground clearance - can get two fingers under it and I catch a worrying amount of things on it. Its just a matter of time I think til I hit something too hard. Not keen on doing the adjustable platforms as I dont really want to raise the ride height sort of defeats the object I would think. The urgency is that I have booked a ferry to go to France on the 23rd August. Any ideas very gratefully received. 😬 Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 what is the clearance twixt sump and ground 🤔 you probably want 3 or 4 inches depending how stiff things are. if its less than this then raise it. My old bilsteins had various grooves so you could adjust in steps of about 1cm (approx 7mm of ride height due to damper angle). HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 Thanks Hoopy - I have Bilsteins so we are making progress - but not adjustable platforms. I am ignorant on these things. I have between sump and road 20mm yes less than an inch!!! How do I adjust them? Do they need to come off the car? I dont have any spring compressors - needed? thanks - this is a really worrying situation! Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 20mm ❗ Are you sure 🤔 that's TINY ❗ yes - you need to take the dampers off - you can then move the collar up and put the circlip it rests on a few (a lot in your case) positions higher. best check that you have these grooves - someone else I spoke to suggested they weren't on their car. 20mm 🤔 *confused* *confused* HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DohNut Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Hoopy beat me to it - too busy messing with BOLD The "adjustable" ones have a screw thread and are infinately adjustable. It sounds like the ones that you have - as Hoopy says are adjustable in steps. The spring sits on a collar which is stopped from sliding down the damper by the ring which sits in the groove in the damper body If you can unload the spring enough then you can tap the collar up as it will have partially settled over the ring. The ring can then be levered out of the groove using a screwdriver or similar. move the ring up to the next groove - or skip a few by the sounds of it. Then push the collar down so it sits on the ring. It is all very well having a low center of gravity but you will loose more time (and sumps) by having the suspention working outside its designed geometry range - too low or too high. Nick Edited by - Doh!Nut on 15 Jul 2003 14:58:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 Thanks Nick, Hoopy, The car is remote from me - but I am going to print this out and go and have a look right now! I am not kidding when I say 20mm from sump to ground. Its mad!!! shocks ( no pun intended 😬) the hell out of me. I really hope its easy to do. Taking the shocks and springs off the car as one, I can do, but do I have to compress the spring to make these adjustments? Remember nightmare days of spring compressors with Escorts and lowering when I was 19 Oh dear I admitted to something! thanks for your help and advice Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Zak IIRC Caterham recommend a minimum ground clearance of 65mm for the sump. Are you sure yours is only 20mm as that is very low ❗. Having adjusted your ride height accordingly you should then measure the ground clearance from the chassis rail just below the engine mount which will then be around 130mm. Then you will need to check the rear which should be measured from the chassis rail just in front of the leading edge of the rear wing. The ride height at the rear should be approximately 10mm higher than that measured at the chassis rail by the gearbox mount. If not adjust accordingly. I hope this helps. Mark D Su77on Se7ens Avoiding the Kerbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 did you get it s/h 🤔 sounds like *something* is broken or seriously wrong for it to be that low... HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gaines Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 20mm clearance is not normal you need to sort this out first. I have recently made a sump guard/ deflector from 12mm polypropelene. It runs under the sump (just touching it). Any large object will not hit the front of the sump but the front of the car should "ride up" a bit and the impact will be taken by the second cross member. I have put a slight bend in the material using a hot wire strip heater. I have some material left over if you are interested. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 12mm Sump guard - That gives him 8mm clearance - Slugs watch out As everybody else says 20mm is toooooooooo low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted July 15, 2003 Support Team Share Posted July 15, 2003 Having seen Zak's car on Sunday, I can confirm that it does indeed sit very very low - it's obvious just looking under the car that it is not right. The car was partially rebuilt after, as Zak put its "a minor tree catching manouvre" so that may be part of the problem. It may be that the collars are just on the wrong setting. Could the springs be too short - they have been coloured to match the body work so perhaps the wrong ones were fitted - is there an easy way to tell? Shaun Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Zak, I guees your in the south, but if not and you can get to Sheffield, email me and I'll sort it for you. norman verona 1989 BDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prs Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Not wishing to expand on your concerns but with that clearance you will NOT get on the ferry. Each deck has raised domes for when it gets rough and they have to strap down, I would think these domes must be at least 30mm high and they are all over the place ie you couldn't drive round them. Caterham recommend a ground clearance of 75mm for the K engine. You should set your front wishbones up so that they are level and then go from there, the rear should be approx 15mm higher. I'm sure you'll sort it ok, if this is your first trip to France you won't be disappointed I went last year for 2 weeks and had a ball so much so I'm off again on the 1st August, good luck. Phil S7SVN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prs Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Have you got widetrack with Bilsteins without the spacer? If so get the spacers of Caterham, cost about a tennerI think and this would cure the problem. Phil S7SVN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 OK, thanks so much for the concern ( mirroring mine!) and all the suggestions. I have just got back and can tell this much... Got the car secondhand last august and pranged it in Feb. Had it put back together by "name unmentioned". Its really pretty but some little things like this and other suspension components not bolted up ( rear suspension thingy and front anti roll bar mounting o/side not bolted on at all!! ) until I noticed them... start to lose my confidence. Just now I noticed that on the nearside I can move the washer on the bolt - rattle it about! that holds the upper part of the bilstein to the car. Only on the nearside? Yes the ground clearance from the sump is 20 mm. Two fingers only. Scary. I am in the south - namely aylesbury - and I have got to get this car sorted out. Its also started stalling when hot on slowing down before a roundabout in second. End up rolling ..bump starting it before hitting the car in front! Yes I have widetrack and bilsteins. The springs are I am told uprated to (I think ) 150lb. Does that sound right? Had them painted 'cos it looks nice' 😬 and the old bilsteins were bent and well why not. The spacers from caterham sound good to me. I can see a spring and then an aluminium sort of disc at the top with a cutout section. at the bottom there are two discs. Cant see anything else and I am told it does not have "adjustable platforms". Keep it coming! PLEASE! 😬 BTW is the email notification working again? z Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 http://www.zachsleep.com/snorer/28%20Nearly%20finished%20(1).htm http://www.zachsleep.com/snorer/03%20front%20view%20as%20arrived.htm These links show how my suspension was.... and how it is now. note the shocks and springs are up the other way *confused* 🤔 🤔 Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 front springs would be more that 150. "uprated" could mean anything in the 250-400 range. the rears could be 150, although 180 is i think the "uprated" rate. HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 150lb/in is the standard front spring rate for post '96 de dion on the Bilstein dampers. IMO it is too low a spring rate. Had a look at your pictures and there is no spacer on your dampers. Doesn't look like there were any originally, but the spring platform is definitely on a different groove. So both the suggested remedies would work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 Doesnt it matter which way up the dampers are? Does anyone near Aylesbury have any spring compressors and expertise - I will come to you and buy large quantities of amber beverage etc? My toolkit is spanners and a socket set - the garage is TINY. Help! Anyone? Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 No. The Bilstein dampers can be mounted either way up. The way you had them previously was more "racer" because it makes changing the springs easier. The way you now have them is "normal". Bilsteins have a very good (and rare) internal design making them suitable for inversion. Now for the noodle bake... When you are cornering, the body accelerations on the car mean that all the forces start acting at an angle to the vertical. If you achieve 1G of cornering, the angle is 45 degrees and the apparent gravity is 1.4G. As far as your outboard damper is concerned, the world is turning more upright. You inboard damper is turning more and more horizontal. If the damper is mounted at 45 degrees and then you corner at 1G, then the damper feels like it is horizontal. Many dampers do not like being mounted more than 15 degrees from the vertical. The Bilstein is not one of these. Dampers that need to remain vertical should not be used on the front end of a Caterham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative peewee7 Posted July 15, 2003 Area Representative Share Posted July 15, 2003 I’m telling you doubters out there, I saw Zaks Seven on Sunday and an ant couldn’t limbo under his sump!!!!! Oh and by the way Zak it wasn’t only a fan-bloody-tastic blat, it was in your back garden, some lovely hump back bridges, not!! If you’re behind me and can read this, its because I’m letting you.... Pee Wee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Yeah, thanks Pete for that. Cheers really.! Evening commitments to other half's horses...nuf said. ☹️ this weekend is another story??? I am going to talk to CC today about some 'spacers' for the front shocks - but not sure what I am asking for and with CC that always worries me! Thanks everyone for all your advice and offers of help. VERY much appreciated and if I could do Bold it would be in bold text too! Just need to find someone helpful with some spring compressors 😬 😬 Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Well, I have some good news to report from CC. I emailed the aftersales dept last night and this morning at 7.45am I got a long and detailed response! So, it would appear that previously I had non standard springs and possibly shocks - ( fitted before I got the car ) and now ( if the correct items are fitted....) I definetely have the wide track spacers absent. Will attempt to obtain the correct ones ( how many?) today and get a local garage to help with compressing the springs. Told I need approx 75mm under the sump - will feel HIGH at that amount - sort of X5 feeling thanks everyone for your help and advice - will feel MUCH happier when I can drive over a cigarette without it hitting the sump! 😬 *thumbup* Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zak Posted July 16, 2003 Author Share Posted July 16, 2003 Decided to bite the bullet and have booked it into CC to get them to sort it out. ...... thanks Simon Zak See my car here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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