Ferrino Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Being new to the Seven experience, I was wondering what the best way to downshift is? I mean, say you are moving from 5th gear to a standstill, do most people tend to shift through each gear, or do some 'skip' gears, say jumping from 3rd to 1st? I am talking about road use only. Personally, I use each gear when downshifting, as I just find it more satisfying, moving through all the gears and hearing the changes kick in. I guess you get the added engine braking too. Would be interested to hear if either method is better/worse for component wear/stress etc....... Thanks An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows. Dwight D. Eisenhower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Ferrino, IMHO... If you are braking to a standstill, going through all the gears just adds wear. If there is some doubt as to whether you will need to start accelerating again before coming to a halt, I would suggest using more gears. I haven't seen a thread recently, but IIRC, the consensus about using engine-braking as a serious deceleration tool was that using the brakes was a better idea... Apart from anything else - if you do botch it up coming into a corner, you run the risk of both buzzing the engine and locking/dragging the rears. Regds, Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 its more fun through the gears. I bought the car for fun. so i change as often as possible 😬 HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 It's probably more fun with a carb car as well... Probably wouldn't be able to resist it myself. Regds, Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Day Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I agree with Hoopy(sorry for not colouring your letters!) I love changing down as I will toe and heel or at least double de clutch. The sound is the best thing about it. The seven is all about fun. Go on spoil yourself use as many changes as poss!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Gears to go, brakes to slow... I find a throttle blip satifying to balance revs with road speed. Speedy Steve's Workshop, Race reports, work done here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Not suggesting you use the grears to slow the car - but as you brake keep changing gear. if you get it right (and its fantastic when it works) you'll feel no jerks at all (ie the gears aren't slowing the car) but you will be in the right gear at pretty much all times. and make more nice noises 😬 HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradbys Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 If braking to a standstill, IMHO use the brakes. Thats what they are for 😳. Brake pads/discs are cheaper to look after and replace than Transmissions/engines . That said, banging down through the gearbox is such a laugh, especially if you can heel-and-toe ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I'm with Myles, with Carb's you get an extra effect when the car expresses displeasure when not being at WOT. Greg, Q 86 NTM (Green 185BHP XF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john aston Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 And if you can't heel and toe you are missing the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I'm with Hoopy on this one and it helps me practice 'heel and toe' so hopefully I'll get it right at Loton and not have a costly spin Mark D Su77on Se7ens Avoiding the Kerbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Downshifting gear by gear does add wear, but, it does leave you able to accelerate away at any moment should the need occur. You've also got the safety aspect though that not downshifting leaves your attention more on the road ahead and your foot more firmly on the brake (rather than just your toes). Personally, I actually back off ages before many would brake anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 I normally block change to the gear I want to be in under braking with a blip of the throttle, but there again, sometimes I get all 'roadcrafty' and don't overlap braking and changing gear, but sometimes I go down the gears blipping away, just for fun! Variety etc! Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 ... or can't make up your mind ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I'm not afraid to embarass myself by revealing ignorance 😳 - but I'm only just coming around to attempting heel'n'toeing. (twas impossible in my 4litre jeeps in Dubai - and pointless in my current jellymobile) I'm not quite sure how to orientate my foot though - YMMV, probably, but are we talking toes NW or NE? I'd be worried about slipping off the pedals in pure N stylee Ta! Regds, Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
se7enmad Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 quote Gears to go, brakes to slow... unquote Definitely not the thing to do in my 7 - brakes are not enough in my car. Maybe driving style goes into this consideration too! Re Heel and Toeing - if you have any foot larger than my shoe size (39 - 8 and a half?? ) then probably you can keep your foot on both brake and accelerator and invert/evert foot to selectively press more on one pedal. In my case my foot gets stuck under the brake if I attempt to do that as the accelerator is lower down in the footwell so I twist the whole leg in (NW :) ) to manage that. Antonella 1998 Caterham Classic (Malta) .. still not spotted ! my site here more photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 keep your foot straight up. ball of the foot on the brake, side of the foot on the throttle. only on VERY old vintage cars are the pedals such that you really use the heel HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarek Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 For road use (ie not racing) you should "block change" down - ie make sure you know all the potential problems around you and go from 5th or 6th direct to the appropriate gear. It certainly hepls with the wear and tear problem too. NB this advice takes no account of "having fun" or of the desire to make the car make certain noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelw Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I find that if I skip gears when changing down I am never completely certain at what point to let the clutch fully out for fear of the rear locking, but that is probably because I have always changed down through the gears. On the Hoopy point, heeling and toeing is one of the many pleasures of the 7 and one of the few cars I can actaully do it smoothly however hard I am braking. Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 hmmm... PC - I did think about whether it was that problem and having carefully considered the whys and wherefores, analysed my motivations and thought processes, I have come to a definite conclusion...maybe. svenmad - "Gears to go, brakes to slow...", that's just brainwashing twaddle from the 'advanced motorist' brigade. hoopy - "only on VERY old vintage cars are the pedals such that you really use the heel", also on cars with floor mounted throttles (organ pedals) and my specially modded caterham pedal. I have lengthened the pedal so I can blip with the lower (IYSWIM) part of my foot having learned in a BMW2002 with a floor mounted pedal. tarek - "should "block change" down" not sure what "should" means here. I think there is great merit to an iterative (ie gear-by-gear) approach over the block change. ho hum! Graham PS for all you advanced motorists out there, I am the founder and sole member of the "right-to-ratchet" society!! Edited by - gridgway on 11 Jul 2003 19:36:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 If you want to learn to heel and toe, put the handbrake under the dashboard. Necessity is the mother of invention and all that, I've got so used to it now I even do it in my wife's golf! Charlie'n'Kermit The plan is: Fit an emerald so I can find out why Kermit's overfuelling S5EVN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrent Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 I reckon you should ignore all the suggested ways of using the side of foot, or the heel, and just adjust and play with pedal spacings until YOU are comfortable with what your doing. I personally like to make a point of using my heel but that's my personal preference... and it's done me well in Racing and on the Road. You can adjust the throttle pedal laterally by spacing it out with washers if needed. I also reckon in some circumstances you should change down a couple of gears at a time, and in others go through the box (when there's an audience go through the box, when in the middle of nowhere block change down!!) Again, do whats comfortable for you! And finally, whats cheaper, gearbox rebuild or brake pads? Take your pick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 With a bike engined car you have to downchange through each of the 6 gears when braking to a standstill, this must also be done whilst still moving. It can be a problem when doing an emergency stop or when you just plain forget! whereupon you hurriedly have to snick in 5 downchanges in the last couple of yards whilst counting down the numbers in your head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Well, I've started trying with the north-south-side foot approach - easier than I was expecting. Had plenty of ops to practice on the 320mile route to Portmeirion at the w/e. I can see why the race boots tend to have a reinforcement patch on the RH boot... Initially I was worried about either slipping off the brake pedal, or catching too much accelerator - but it seems OK with my Replicat Pumas. On occassions where heavy/sudden braking has been required, I've wisely chosen not to try h'n't. Only problem I'm having at the moment is the slightly hit and miss synchronisation of clutch and revs (OK, yep, the whole point, I know...). ATM, 50% or more of the changes result in the revs falling back before I release the clutch - leading to jerky changes. It is satisfying when you get it right though. REgds, Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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