J P E w a n t e d

[EFA]

For info, a std 2.0 litre JPE with Caterhams Exhaust and the DCOE Weber Alpha Injection gives only about 225-230 bhp _ the same engine with a decent exhaust and the same injection on an inlet manifold which will not fit a Caterham gives the full quoted 250bhp.

 

In neither circumstance is the engine stressed. It runs a completely std bottom end except for ARP rod bolts (to cope with the 8200rpm limiter (whihc IMO is a bit on the high side for std rods) and it also runs Cosworth forged pistons to accomadate deeper valve pockets. Head is ported with a few mods to the oilways and bronze guides for the std valves. Cams are a long duration (312deg) moderate lift (10.6mm)

 

This means the JPE motor will require far less frequent engine rebuilds compared to the R500 of similar power output. The JPE engine will also provice considerably more torque than the R500.

 

On a drag strip there is little to determine whether the JPE or R500 is faster, but the published figures for the JPE are for teh 5 speed version with a 2.04 ratio 1st gear - this blunts the initial off the line traction and acceleration. The last JPE's had the 6 speed box and the same overall gearing as an R500. These will demonstrate a marginly quicker 1/4 mile time.

 

 

As for resale values, the JPE's have been going for good money. A late 2.2 JPE (whihc has a steel bottom end and Swindon taper roller barrels) went for £35k recently. Cheapest JPE I have seen in recent times was about 29k and was not a good colour, hence the price.

 

The wight of a JPE is aroud 515kgs which is obviously heavier than an R500 and most of the weight gain is derived from the engine hence the understeer is very marginly worsened. Things can be done to the rear geometry of a VX car to compensate though, so long a sthe JPE has the wide track front end which make sthe singularly greatest difference to the handling of any Caterham. An R500 will remain more chuckable around slower circuits, but the margin between a VX and well set up K engined car (thinks back to Clash of the Titans) is very small. A few people on here are of the opionion that the VX engined cars are more stable in high speed corners as well......(subj)

 

 

I disagree strongly with the theories of depreciation on cars and pitch my opinions as follows:

 

R500's have poor resale values because of the reliability issues suffered by early cars - prospective buyers of £30k cars do not want to be faced with a £5k bill from Minister 3 months in.... This is confirmed by the fact that SLR residuals are far more stable relative to new price simply because the reliability issue (myth or not) is not associated with that model.

 

Good clean Vauxhall engined cars are becoming a rarity, and this is hardeneing prices. Sure you will find cars for £12k but these will be in less than perfect condition (maybe not visible) and have no desirable bit on them (big brakes, wide track, seats etc) They might even have clamshells

 

Recently a non JPE VX car went for £22K - the car was in excellent condition and had some good bits on it - but I think this reflects the way the market is going. The words "If I had my money again, I think I would have gone the 2nd hand VX route" are something I have heard several people say recently.....

 

Fat Arn

Visit the K2 RUM website

See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here

 

[anthonym]

I hope to goodness mine is not an "early" car (it's the hyperion one in this month's low flying

 

Edited by - anthonym on 16 Jul 2003 23:16:40

[Mark Piper]

Anthony, I was going to point you in the direction of Stephen's car, it's absolutely mint and has the latest upgrades engine-wise ISTR. He's hardly used it and I was sorely tempted by it when last up there. Naturally Jeremy Richardson set up the suspension too so you should have no issues with factory spec setup which is known not to be 100% - why not ask them to set it up for your weight whilst you're at it, although Jeremy no longer works there (unless he's had second thoughts and rejoned since I was last there!)

 

They also look after/store a beautiful metallic grey JPE too which will interest you - and ask Dickie for his thoughts on R500 versus JPE for an objective viewpoint!

 

A good choice IMHO

[Normans_Ghost]

Anthony,

 

I know I'm a bit late in the conversation but here goes.

 

I've had a BDR 1700 HPC since 1992 (was 3 years/3000miles when bought)

 

I've spent the winter rebuilding and wont bother with all the detail. Wide track and quick rack have transformed handling, also flat floor set-up helped.

 

Roger King fitted steel crank & con-rods, Cossie pistons in order to cope with what he did to head. Head fitted with DFV valves & springs and RK ported to fit.

 

When he came off rolling road he was showing signs of exictment & pleasure (for those who don't know RK, thats rare)

 

The car is now AbFab - point and squirt is a good description. Power from 4500 to 8500 in one seamless stream. RK says engine performance in a 7 is not all about BHP it also relies on the engine breathing to allow the engine to increase it's revs as quickly as possible. He also thinks I would keep up with most 7's with more BHP than my 220'ish due to this. He tells me he's never been given a remit like mine which was "get 220 but still useable on the road". He acheived this objective with flying colours and came in exactly on budget (his not mine).

 

I decided to spend this amount (16k!) as I didn't want injection/computers. I understand carbs and all the old technology.

 

In conclusion it's the best money I've ever spent (and I can spend it!)

 

norman verona

1989 BDR

ps, The 16k was the whole job, the engine was (only) 10k

Edited by - nverona on 17 Jul 2003 17:38:46

 

Edited by - nverona on 17 Jul 2003 17:40:13

[anthonym]

THANKS everyone.

 

In conclusion I bought Stephen's R500 from Hyperion and 2,000 miles later after blatting across France, Belgium (Ardennes) a bit of Germany, Switzerland.. oh yes France inlcuded 7 hours (!!) spent crossing PARIS no car trouble .

 

I am happy.

 

Anthony

[dogvet]

I drove one of the rare JPE s at Spa this year on slicks and the grunt is fantastic as is the noise.

[Sheds Moderator]

Interesting debate. I am unusual in 7 owners as I have 128bhp and it's enough for now, thanks. I'm sure on Alpine passes a bit more grunt is useful, but I like the statement that 140bhp may exceed the capacity of the chassis. I don't know about this, what I do know is that it will give an M3 a hard time in a straight line up to 100mph and murder it on the bends, and I don't want to go faster than this too often because of what the police will do to my licence if I do.

 

I find that all these cars are soooo fast and agile compared to other cars that the difference is massive with 130 bhp and diminishing returns set in very soon after, you start to run into the fundamenttal limitations of the car.

 

By the same token I heard of a guy who sold his Fireblade (bike, not BEC) for an Aprilia RS250 because his licence was getting tired, he said it was more fun because he could throw it around in the corners and OK, he was slower on the straights but this kept the police happy. He also enjoyed driving it properly as an exercise rather than just knowing that on the exit to the corner you can just open the throttle in any gear and it will take off.

 

There is always the James Hunt factor as well; his favourite wheels were an old van, since he could drive it at the limit of adhesion without anyone noticing. Better cars he felt meant no more fun but much greater costs, risk to licence/NCB, etc.

 

Horses for courses, of course, but it seems to me that a lot of people want extra BHP because they like the numbers. We all know that the biggest upgrade is the nut behind the wheel.

[Sheds Moderator]

Oh yes, sorry for coming into this late. Hope your car is still as good as you hoped Anthony, see you in a week or 2 in Valais, I am still undecided whether to bring Battered or not. I should...