ben7 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Apologies as I know this has been covered before, but I can't find the thread as the search facility is down. Does anybody have any basic instructions/guidence on fitting one of these. I'm looking for my garage to fit one at the weekend - they've seen them but never fitted one. I also seem to remember somebody mentioeing that there may be a club discount? I've found the DVA site which has a few pictures, is there any further info out there? Engine is a 1800 k with factory fitted drysump. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 you just need to cut a section of coolant hose out and fit the laminova in to the gap. Not sure how the oil ways are plumbed on your system but you'll need to take one of the hoses out the laminova and then back from laminova to wherever the hose used to go. You'll therefore need at lease one new hose and probably 2. HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiddy1 Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Ben I fitted on to my VVC car, it was bought from Think automotive my car has an appollow tank so the fitting was very easy. the unit fit in the top hose pipe which has to be cut to fit the laminover. The pipe holds th elaminover in place. there are two oil fittings and the pipes supplied go from the apollow through the laminover and then back into the apollow. it is just a case of unscrewing one pipe off the apollow, joining that to the pipe in to the lam, then the return from the lam goes into the apollow if you dont have an apollow then you will need an offtake from the filter, i.e a sanwich plate and slightly longer pipes to get fom the filter to the lam and back. all very straight forward Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 The neatest installation is to plumb it into the oil pipe from the scavenge pump to the bellhousing tank. The bypass line from the water rail back to the thermostat housing serves the coolant side of the laminova. You can attach the laminova to the heater shelf - this is all easy if you don't have a heater. It is more complicated if you have a heater. Make sure your garage sign up on pain of death for consequential damages from not bleeding the cooling system properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted July 1, 2003 Support Team Share Posted July 1, 2003 Does anyone have a list of the right parts to order from Think Automotive? I will be buying a Radtec radiator soon (hoping the bulk buy goes through) and thought that would be a good time to fit a Laminova so I only have to bleed the cooling system once. I have a wet sump K with Apollo tank fitted. Edited to say "I have a heater". Shaun Yellow SL #32 Edited by - Shaun_E on 1 Jul 2003 17:28:08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Will Flys (Roy Booth) site has fitting details - www.willfly.net If you call Think and speak to Matthew and tell him what its for he has a list of parts (Caterham Kits) for the laminovas. Let him know if you are a club member. Pics of my installation: here Regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 Not quite right, Mav. This one is for a sry sump. You need to look at V7 SLR's fitting. FWIW, the dry sump eliminates most of the problems with oil temperatures, so I'd be interested in knowing why you think you need to fit one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 When I quizzed CC about Laminovas they started off saying 'they don't recommend fitting them' before moving on, in effect, to say 'they recommend you don't fit them'. Since my car is still under warranty I shall follow that line but once it's out of warranty I'll fit one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 I fitted mine (dry sumped) into the top radiator hose (oil plumbing to sandwich plate/filter) to get some pre-warming of the oil as it goes into the engine. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 Mike, the Laminova will only affect about a 2 degree change in oil temp during a pass through the heat exchanger. This gives quicker warmup, but gives negligible boost to the temperature immediately prior to entering the engine. If 2 degrees makes a difference then you are too close to the limit. Siting of the Laminova is not going to be the biggest issue. If however you want to take advantage of the thermostatic control in the coolant circuit and more effectively tie oil temperature to coolant temperature then the Laminova is the device for you. The fitting instructions advise against fitting in the scavenge circuit, yet Nig seems to have had success doing this. Fitting in the pressure circuit obviously cause a drop in pressure but it is arguable whether this is significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted July 2, 2003 Support Team Share Posted July 2, 2003 Some more questions: 1. What size Laminova have people selected (and why)? I'm guessing from the pictures that it is the 180mm one. 2. Have Caterham given any reasons why they don't recommend a Laminova and are there any disadvantages? I just want to understand as much as possible about these devices. 3. Given that I have an Apollo tank, which has made the oil pressure drop slightly, will the Laminova cause more of a pressure drop and what are acceptable limits to this? At the moment I get hot running oil pressure as low as 53 PSI - before the Apollo was fitted it was 58-60. Thanks for all your comments so far and hope I haven't hijacked this thread too badly 😬 Shaun Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 I've some pictures of my installation if anyone wants them. Please email me direct though. Installation: *arrowright*Race rad, easily able to sink heat from both the coolant and oil (through the laminova). *arrowright*Caterham dry sump (uses clutch bell housing - huge amount of alloy to heat/cool = stable temps and long timescales to warm/cool oil). *arrowright*No heater. No worries. *arrowright*Laminova plumbed into heater bypass circuit for coolant. Oil pumped from scavenge pump, through laminova and into d/s tank. No loss of oil pressure because the pressure pump is unaffected. *arrowright*76 degree thermostat. *arrowright*Separate oil and coolant temp gauges. Both SPA senders (more accurate than Caterham-supplied senders). Coolant sender in normal place (on exit of head) and oil sender in cast alloy bell/tank housing. Observations: *arrowright*Normal operation (not thrashing on a hot day) the coolant temp stabilises low at about 72 degrees. I have no idea why. There is a small offset in temperatures between what the Emerald reads and the Spa gauge (different senders) but this is about 2 degrees. I am still not certain whether the rated 76 degrees of the thermostat is the initial opening temp or the fully open temp. I ought to take it out and the Spa sender over the Winter and boil them both in a saucepan to observe the results. *arrowright*Under same conditions as above (not thrashing on a hot day), oil temp stabilises to about 10-15 degrees below the coolant temp. *arrowright*When thrashed on a hot day and then stopped quickly in traffic, the coolant rises to 85 degrees at which time the fan comes on and arrests any further rise (switches off at 82). Coolant temp will remain at around 82-85 degrees until I'm moving at speed again when it will drop to low 70's again. *arrowright*Oil temp will rise to about 10 degrees above the coolant while the car is being thrashed on a hot day, but no more. It starts to fall very slowly if in traffic. Very slowly. Thoughts: *arrowright*Without a laminova, but with a d/s system, I expect the oil will take slightly longer to heat up than one with a laminova but I also expect it will NOT get as hot under "normal" conditions. I believe that my oil, which is now at around 60 degrees when maintaining an easy 60mph or above, is probably now at a higher temp than before the laminova was installed. The fact that the coolant remains at a higher temp than this means the thermal gradient is in the direction of coolant to oil. This kind of supports my theory. *arrowright*I can certainly attest to the fact that my oil no longer gets any higher than low 90 degrees now. I did see 110 once before the laminova was fitted. The laminova works more efficiently the higher the thermal gradient (i.e. the greater the difference between the oil and coolant temps is) which will reinforce the "tie" between the 2 temps. Essentially the important thing is that the laminova ties the 2 temps together. If you've enough capacity in the coolant circuit (big rad) then this makes your control of the oil temp easy. If not, then you might wish to forego the heating aspect of the laminova for a thermostatically controlled oil cooler. This will prevent the oil being cooled until it has achieved the desired temp. The benefits of heating the oil and tying low oil temp to coolant are unknown although technically appear desireable. Also, the laminova is easy to site. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben7 Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 V7SLR YHM. Peter, I was under the impression that the location of the CC dry sump, between engine and gearbox (that's about as technical as I get!), puts it between two potential heat sources. Also I presume that the tank presents a smaller surface area to the underneath of the car and therefore doesn't get as much cool air passing around it as on a wet sump. I don't have an oil temp guage on the car, but I know that the oil pressure bounces into the red after an enthusiastic workout (warning light doesn't come on though). Water temp generally sits at about 80 degrees regardless of how the cars driven (unless I'm stuck in traffic). Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 I was under the impression that the location of the CC dry sump, between engine and gearbox [snip] puts it between two potential heat sources. Yes , but think how much trouble is taken in the laminova to develop a flow of liquid over a large surface area. The heat transfer from the gearbox to the bellhousing tank is very inefficient. Also I presume that the tank presents a smaller surface area to the underneath of the car and therefore doesn't get as much cool air passing around it as on a wet sump. But the oil has already passed over the surfaces of the dry sump (same surface area/cross-section as wet sump), so the extra pipework and exposed areas of the bellhousing tank are further opportunities to transfer heat. Except... they are again very inefficient surfaces for the transfer of heat - not much surface area or in the case of the oil pipes, they are made of rubber which is an eminently good insulator. A radiator is the specialised device that transfers heat from a liquid flow into an airflow - look at how distant the resemblance is between the bellhousing tank and your radiator; between your sump and the radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 as another data point... The Pace dry sump system does loose a lot of heat through the tank. however - its made of thin ali and sat right gehind the rad so gets lots of air over it. The laminova will be FAR more efficient at transferring heat byt the large surface area and greater temp differential appear to result in significant transfer. Lagging the tank reduces the effect. would be interesting to run with and without laminova in this setup to nail down the source of oil heat loss... HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 The Pace tank has very low surface area compared to a "radiator". Air is a very inefficient medium for carrying heat away from a surface. It is much easier to transfer heat from/into a liquid. The liquid/liquid heat transfer in the Laminova means it can achieve much more heat transfer in a smaller space. You can then lose that heat into the airflow through the efficient radiator at the front of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 I should point out that I am not disagreeing with you, Hoopy. Data would be good, so I am just writing about some simple empirical principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 in total agreement with you there. i see that the oil is very cool and normal running has oil and water both in the 60-70 range. Mick Smith lagged his tank and said the oil temp was higher. Qualitatively we agree it will have an effect, quantitatively I've no idea how big it will be but admit I'm surprised at how loarge the effect appears to be. HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordy Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 anybody any idea of what the max temp you should be letting your oil get to? Or what the desired oil temp for a k series is? Also anyone quantified what the reduction in oil pressure is having fitted some kind of oil cooler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted July 29, 2003 Share Posted July 29, 2003 I've not had a reduction in pressure since fitting my Laminova. CC Tech people seem to think 120 - 130 is fine in the apollo and the engine according them IIRC is reated to 150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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