old captain slow Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 Thinking of the next upgrade. Is the K-series kit advertised by Lumenition any good? What could I expect from a 1600 K SS? What do you say to the insurers and what would be the damage to my pocket. Any help much appreciated. teeth.gif David White C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dba11 Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 If you look at Dave Andrews Webpage it has all the info you need on upgrading. Not sure what you tell the insurers. There are plenty of people that have gone this route that will help with questions etc. I am sure PC will be along later to give you an in depth explanation of what needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 David. Luminition throttle bodies are re-badged 'Jenvey' items so you may save a bit by going direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Note that typically Jenvey won't sell direct to you if you're in the UK... Lumenition, QED and SBD all sell the same TBs and act as distributors. Checking out Dave's site is an absolute must if you're thinking of doing this. It would also be worth your while checking out the se7ens mailing list (www.se7ens.net) as Dave is, I believe, sorting out a bulk buy opportunity for the direct to head tb's...I think he's looking at 425+VAT which isn't bad. There's also tons of info' on there. The Lumenition box set looks attractive, but I think after looking at Dave's site you'll go a different route. Most people doing this have so far used an Emerald ECU (though I have an MBE) and Piper cams. The all in cost will be about the same, but you'll have shed loads of experience to tap into on the web, plus a load of free maps for the ECU. These two items are worth an awful lot! As for power, you'll probably be looking at 145-160bhp without any head work. With some porting and perhaps valve size changes 170-180 is possible. Beyond this anything up to 250bhp has been seen but you're looking at lots of expense for strengthening the various bits...but check out Dave's site as I'm notorious for getting this sort of info' muddled! Insurance depends entirely on who you are insured with, but you should definitely tell them what you're up to! Some will want the power figure, others will want any change in valuation, some won't want anything extra (as they base stuff on engine capacity)! Damage to yer pocket will depend on how much you can do yourself. A pair of cams (300ish), tb's (allow 500 which'll give you scope for trumpets and filters perhaps if you get them cheap) and ECU (500) are going to be just over 1500 quid incl. VAT. There may be other sundry items that you'll need so I'd be inclined to allow 2k or so for hardware. If you do the work yourself, that's yer lot. Otherwise it depends where you take it (and as I'm useless on this stuff [my upgrade was done for me, but was a bit more involved so isn't good for comparison] I couldn't tell you how long it'd take to fit it all, but would guess at 3-4 days for someone that knows what they're doing). C7 AJM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 I had no trouble buying my manifold & bodies direct from Jenvey. They won't sell you the direct-to-head ones 'cos they "belong" to QED. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 The Lumenition Kit appears attractive, but it isn't an afternoon job to fit it. In particular, the throttle linkage will give a very long pedal travel, the trumpets are *much* too short (compromising torque) and there are no hoses for the fuel rail and no mounting bracket for the fuel pressure regulator and no air filter or back plate and no air bleed for the coolant circuit coming off the front throttle body. [above examples only going to explain how the fiddly little stuff adds up] The unit price for the Lumenition ECU is high compared to the Emerald. By the time you have rolled up your sleeves to sort it all out you will realise that the boxed 'kit' was a marketing gimmick to trick you into thinking it was easy. It is as easy as: Order throttle bodies from QED (or via Dave Andrews) Throttle bodies come with the fuel rail and there is a one piece drawn tube rail that obviates the need for a bit of hose in the middle. Buy linkage from Jenvey (or QED), but I am sure Chelspeed will be along in a minute to tell us it's not necessary. Spec long trumpets. (QED or Jenvey) Buy a fuel pressure regulator (QED or Demon Tweeks) Buy an ECU from Emerald. Buy a filter and back plate (QED) ... Discover the filter back plate fouls with the upper chassis tube. ... etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Is there any definitive benefit to be gained from using the direct to head rather than the tapered bodies?? Alan L7 FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 It's possible to re-use the Rover fuel rail & integral fuel pressure regulator with a bit of fiddling, so that's a few more quid saved. The DTH bodies are beneficial to your pocket, and there's less scope for misalignment & leaks since they eliminate the manifold-to-bodies join. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 I *think* that the tapered bodies require a manifold. The DTH don't (that last bit's definite!). And this *feels* like the right thing to do - i.e. have a piece of kit "bespoke" designed for the engine rather than a "generic" piece of kit that is then interfaced with the engine by another piece of metal. I've not compared the two but I would think the DTH will be lighter (if only by a fraction) and are less complex (thus less likely to cause grief). There's also a distinct possibility that the paths between one end and the other are less compromised (but I doubt actual performance gains between the two are significant). If this is blox I promise not to post on these subjects again :) C7 AJM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 I was speaking to 'Jenvey' today & the DTH TB's should work out shorter as a package than with the adaptor etc.... true ? The 'K' ones have a 42mm butterfly with 33mm circular 'outlet'.This should be a good match (without too much work) for the V V C heads proposed. I wasn't given any 'restricted buying access' info.! That's not to say that it doesn't exist so ask !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted January 29, 2001 Author Share Posted January 29, 2001 Thanks, Guys. You've given me lots to think about and the Dave Andrews page has a wealth of info. One thing that doesn't leap out though is will there be a significant improvement to the 1600 K SS engine if I just go for a revised ECU and DTH throttle bodiesquestion.gif That is, do I need to mod the head at the same time to make it worth while. I had in mind doing the job in stages by leaving head mods to a later date or maybe not at all. cool.gif C7 CDW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 David. You could always polish the inside of the cyl. head instead of just the bodywork (re. a separate posting!).thumbsup.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 David TB's will make a huge difference to the dirvability of the engine, if not the max torque and bhp, although you should see 10% rise in these figures over the single flap throttle inj on the K. Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 One thing that doesn't leap out though is will there be a significant improvement to the 1600 K SS engine if I just go for a revised ECU and DTH throttle bodies Have a look at December 2000 Low Flying - PC's Diary Part 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted January 30, 2001 Author Share Posted January 30, 2001 Thanks everyone. Now where is the metal polish? Must get a shine on the underside of the floor to reduce the drag..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Ugh a metal floor..... Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted January 30, 2001 Author Share Posted January 30, 2001 What's your floor made of then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Wood Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 I think your best bet is to buy the QED direct to head bodies with spacers and trumpets ( 90mm ) with dave Andrews discount , then use your complete existing feul rail and regulator lifted straight from your std plenum . Just turn the injectors round and it bolts straight on using special brackets designed by Rob Walker ( DIY ) . Dont forget to tap in the side of the bodies back plate for the coolant return . No need to buy the throttle linkage either , use the one designed by Rob again , this gives the correct pedal travel ratio and uses the std throttle cable . Then buy the Emerald ecu which is K series plug compatible so just plug it in and down load a base map supplied ( fine tuning mapping will still be required ( £200 ) ) . Mount a back plate ( ITG JC50 100mm deep filter ) directly to the back of the trumpets then it wont clash with the cross member . Thats about it for starters and should provide about 155-160 bhp , but with a dramatic improvement in throttle response and a terrific noise . Its not a bad job to fit , the rewards are worth it and allow scope for future tuning . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony pashley Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Just out of curiosity, Arnie: How are bookings for the Le Mans trip going this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Tony, There re zero spaces left for one person in a car(such persons are advised to go find a passenger), and about six spaces remian if you have a passenger. That little lot totals 103 cars!!!! So I guess things are going well... Oh and by the way David I was kidding.... its carbon fibre. Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old captain slow Posted January 30, 2001 Author Share Posted January 30, 2001 I must say I wasn't sure there for a minuteblush.gif. Mind you, balsa would be quite light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Dave J. Have you tried buying an 'Emerald' ECU recently ? Dave & Karl haven't got any & are still (!) awaiting the supply of the 'new' units!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Chris , I bought mine about 3 months ago . Sorry .... must be frustrating !!! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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