julians Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 I know this has probably been asked a million times before, but the search is offline. Whats a good brake pad to use in the small brake setup (front) for predominantly track work. Currently using mintex 1155, and I get the impression that these are too hard (for three reasons, they feel a bit wooden , they've not worn significantly in 1500 track miles where the rears have been through three sets, and the rears lock before the fronts, a standard caterham problem I believe) Any suggestions, will probably try 1144's, unless there is a definitive pad I should be using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 julians Your comment on the rear brakes is interesting. My cars done err 56,000 miles 🤔 and I have only changed the rear set once. Currently say worn by one third. My rears do not lock up if anything its more the fronts. I have had say 6-8 sets on the front, then again I do not let them go very low. Thats a little dangerous as they can start to brake up when very hot. The rear disks are at the need to renew stage. The front disks were changed about 2 years ago and I now have green stuff on the front forgotten the spec, box is in the garage if your interested, bought them and the disks from 7 workshop. I not sure if I will change to green rears as the current ones seem fine. The car brakes well and is not unbalanced in braking. As for all cars most braking is on the front anyway. So far the green stuff has no fad, well except a bit when the weathers very cold but not often noticed. Its only for a instant. It has to be said I have never been that heavy on the brakes in any car except on the track. 😬 I did comment, at MIRA yesterday, that staging at the start does not really warm your tires up think spin on starts quite enough for that but thinking about it does warm the brakes a tad which must be a plus. The problem with warming the rears tyres up is then they are hot and the fronts still cold. Think you may need to think why the rears are wearing out more than the fronts not wearing out. 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Green and red stuff both wear out very quickly. They are good when new but they also seem to lose braking power after a few serious heat cycles (although the reds I use to use wear much better than the greens in this respect). I had a set of green rears that I never used because I knew they'd be pretty much gone after two trackdays and I couldn't be bothered to have to replace them again so soon. The reds were very good but just wore out too quickly. I know some people swear by 1144's but I haven't tried them. I'm currently using Pagid RS14's and they are fantastic. They do squeal a bit but they're great when cold, even better when warm and by my estimation, last about three times as long as the EBC pads. Then again, they cost twice as much as anything else I've seen so they ought to be good! If you want to try Pagid's, fluke motorsport are the place to get them from. http://www.fluke-motorsport.co.uk/ Alex Wong www.alexwong.net _________ / __ __ / ___ _//__T/__/_ ___ / (_) (_)/ /`-'/o/ _______ /o/`-'/ / /// ( VDU7X ) // / /___/--_________/--/___/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Hi Alex So are you saying my rear pads lasting a VERY long time is very unusually 🤔. It has to be said you drive far quicker than ME and are more often on the track than me ☹️ 😬 😬 I agree greens will not last long but longevity is not the point. Doing the job i.e. stopping is the real test. Reds must be the option for race only but give more fad than green when cold. I have yet to experiance the "a few serious heat cycles" but thanks for the warning. Perhaps my pads lasting a long time reflects my slow speeds. 🤔 😳 Me thinks you have the big front callipers on your car 🤔 so how much does this come into play. 🤔 Must say at MIRA if nothing else big front callipers must be a confidence booster going into the err 120 degree bend after the fast time speed trap. 😬 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Has anyone tried the Ferodo DS range of pads? I confess I don't know much about friction technology, but the blurb seems good: high temp. capability and higher coefficients of friction than either Mintex or EBC. Summary here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Bill, Yup. Big calipers on the front and standard at the rear. The red stuff pads were extremely good when they were new but the RS14's are even better and last so much longer. They also stay good which as I said, the EBC pads didn't seem to. Also, the EBC claim to produce no dust is b*****ks.... (sorry, but it is!) I've experienced the "going off" phenomenon of red stuff pads over a trackday and it's not a nice feeling having less braking as the day goes on. I don't think I'm especially hard on the brakes as braking hard is an area I can improve loads on. I still went through the EBC pads at a frightening rate. Roger S who must be one of the last of the late brakers wore a set of green rears down to the metal in two trackdays. I think he's gone back to using 1144's. My RS14's have now done 5 trackdays and about 10,000 road miles, and are 2/3 worn. I'd have replaced my redstuff pads at least once by now. There simply isn't an area where the Pagids are weak (apart from their cost). They work well cold or hot and are lasting very well. Definitely recommended. I haven't tried Ferrodo but they seem have a good reputation. Incidentally, the pagid front pads use about 10% more of the disc area on my AP fronts as they are larger than the EBC pads. JMHO.... Alex Wong www.alexwong.net _________ / __ __ / ___ _//__T/__/_ ___ / (_) (_)/ /`-'/o/ _______ /o/`-'/ / /// ( VDU7X ) // / /___/--_________/--/___/ Edited by - Alex Wong on 22 Jun 2003 21:58:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F355GTS Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Luke I had DS3000's in mine then changed to Pagid which i like but will be going back to the Ferodos which I felt gave more bite. (note car used for trackdays only!) Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgrigsby Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I'm another Pagid RS14 user and like Alex I can't fault them, they are superb on the road and even more amazing on track. Combined with the how long they last (big fronts on my car have done 8-10K miles and hmm a LOT of track days and 6 races) Definetly recommend giving them ago, I'd fit them all round as they seem to balance the car up quite well. Rob G www.SpeedySeven.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseb Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Pagid RS-15's maybe not as ultimately as good on track as the 14's (although I don't know why), they're good fast road/track pads that don't squeal when cold and give very good bite and feel right from the off. Mine don't seem to be wearing badly either have done 3 or 4 track days and they're 1/3 worn - although I admit my car or driving probably aren't quite as hooly as the other 2... We like 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Wong1697456877 Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 although I admit my car or driving probably aren't quite as hooly as the other 2... You might not be but you're not the only driver of your car, are you? 😬 Alex Wong www.alexwong.net _________ / __ __ / ___ _//__T/__/_ ___ / (_) (_)/ /`-'/o/ _______ /o/`-'/ / /// ( VDU7X ) // / /___/--_________/--/___/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Hi Alex Well next time I try the Pagid RS14. So as on the last post after MIRA braking ON the speed trap before the big bend at the Tower I think I would like some big front calipers so I can break later. My cars wieght comes in to play being far heavier than the R500 or bike engine ones. I suspect the got to drive it home also is a big factor ☹️ in fact I know it's true. 😳 Caterham or that nice James Whiting's set up 🤔 Still this does not help julians. So I am rather thread high jacking. However, I posted my rears do not wear out only the fronts julians has the opposite problem. ❗ Anyone have thoughts on which cars correct or do we both have a problem 🤔 🤔 🤔 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 I dont mind the hijack.I had read in various places that the standard caterham rears overheat v easily and this is what leads to the pads being eaten in about 500 track miles. Strangely I dont get any overheating type problems, the fluid stays fine, the pedal travel is fine, I just dont get much bite and the rears lock first. Having spoken to Simon Lambert at caterham, I'll probably give the mintex 1144' s a try . If that doesent make any difference I'll probably bite the bullet and go for the big brake setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Beaumont Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Interesting Mark, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJL Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I have a 1.6K supersport with the standard brakes and was discussing their lack of effectiveness with the chaps in the Caterham parts department - they suggested Bleed system - I had done 2000 miles since build and the consensus was they need to be bled a few times Adjust position of master cylinder actuator rod to pedal clevis so that nuts are near end of trave (better leverage) These definitely improvde matters but still noticed a lack of feel - next step was to try Mintex racing pads (not sure waht spec but supplied by Caterham so probably first level up from road) This definitely improved braking and feel considerably and I am please I tried this rather than going straigtht to a big brake setup - a big improvement for little money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Hi All Well you have all been chatting about pads but I have been thinking about bigger rather than pad change. The only downside I see in Pagid RS14 and Mintex 1144 thing that's the race ones is the same with EBC Red Stuff pads. I have found once or twice the green stuff on the road suffered fad from being TOO cold. Now that must apply if your sprinting. So for a while I have been looking enviously at BIG front 4 pot brakes. This WILL give a big improvenent with no losses on cold brakes So I decided to go for James Whiting's here front set up and keep to solid disks. Personally I have had trouble with ventilated disks warping on 2 tin tops so I am rather put off by them. Think I currently have the problem on the jaguar juddering now and then gone for ages then back after a high speed run. Never had the problem on solid disks. Its also more than a few bob cheaper. £558.13 verses £646.25 including VAT. However more interestingly replacement disks are far cheaper. Now I think James quotes non slotted so there is a lesser difference think mine were £90 the pair from memory + vat. In truth I have forgotten. I put new disks EBC turbo on the front err 2 years ago that I bought off 7 Workshop that are designed for EBC type material. Think that means they are harder and they are slotted. Slotted, from what I have read, is supposed to be stronger than drilled. So no very big saving on the ventilated. These I will move to the rears and stay with standard new pads. The front will get NEW similar slotted disks. That should take into account any differences in pad contact sizes the also I think rears are smaller in contact width. Anyone see an error in the swap disks front to rear they are in VERY good condition 🤔 Have any comments on James Alcon Brakes never heard any moans 🤔 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Edited by - bilbo on 25 Jun 2003 21:12:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I hate the way that they all seem very secretive about the compound they use. I guess its so you don't just buy it from the motor factors down the road.... HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Hi All Well no anti post for James deal, did not think there would be, so I ordered it today 😬. Might need to wait a while for the groved disks if its too long it will be the drilled ones. Hoopy From the web Green Stuff is KEVLAR® is made by DuPont. DuPont and KEVLAR® are trademarks or registered trademarks of E.I. du Pont de Nemours and Company. 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groutledge Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 In my experience on track results as follows.. -pagids are excellent but couldn't use them in my wilwood 4 pots, but were great in my Elise 190. They are very expensive though - EBCs all crap, greens lost their bite and I competely wore a set of reds down to 2mm in half a track day. EBC claimed they probably hadn't cured as the car was not heavy enough, hmmm sounds like french for b*****cks to me - The best pads I found cost/performance were ferodo DS2500 whch where designed for light cars, worked well from cold so Ok on the road, didn't squeal, didn''t need any bedding in a such and had a nice high friction rating ( about .53-.57 i think ). I think they were about £45 for my 4pot wilwoods, may be cheaper for the standard Girling calipers. If you can afford it try both pagid and Ferodo and see which you prefer. Try Circuit Supplies on 01525 385888 as they supply both Pagid and ferodo and so should be able to give some good advise. Hope this helps Graham (soon to be back in a 7 hopefully, touch wood !! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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