StewartG Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Please disregard the hot oil theory I repeat I've played this game and it is not your problem. When my engine had the same problem I had no end of offers from perfectionists with businesses to run offering me mega-buck solutions and in the end the solution cost me 61p. I still think the problem is the pressure relief valve that's what mine turned out to be. I know I said yesterday that a new engine sounded your best bet but on reflection I think I agree with opinion expressed here that worn bores on their own don't cause low oil pressure. If the bores are worn there must be a reason and I guess the reason could be lack of lubrication. Do you have any oil leaks. Has the oil pressure been verified with an external gauge? You could have a faulty gauge or sender unit although as per previous, something must have caused the engine wear. If you have a sump or oil pick up problem then you must have always had these symptoms unless something's been changed recently. I assume you've only just noticed the problem so something in the engine has failed it can't be caused by the sump etc you've had all along. I think the petrol diluting the oil theory is absurd. In order for this to be credible the thing would have to be so rich that the spark plugs would foul and the mpg would be too poor to get you home from the pump on a tankfull and the thing would stink of petrol. I'm beginning to wonder if JN's people are grabbing at straws... or a fat cheque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 StewartG, I was thinking the exact same thing as you with regard to fat cheques. I've just spoken to them again, but at the moment they still say that they think its definately not a problem with the spring or the pump. Until I have proof that they are not doing the job properley I have to give them the benefit of the doubt. I guess that at the end of the day if they say they have fixed the pressure problem and they havent, it just goes back to them and they can fix it properley at no extra cost. If they do fix it then I guess I should be more trusting and I will continue to use them. This begs the question, does anyone know any good engine builders/troubleshooters in the Manchester/north west? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I suggested earlier that you e mail Andrew Dent, he knows a good engine builder in the nelson area. The alternative I suppose is to contact a good Ford dealer, maye one with the Rallye Sport insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 A good supplier listens to his customer. Tell JN to change the pres relief valve before doing any other work. This will cost you far less if you get to it early. Have you actually seen the damaged bores yourself??? Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 The problem is I dont have enough knowledge of engines to be able to say for sure that they should change this first ( If I did have this knowledge I would do the work myself), they are after all the experts and if they say they don't think that is the problem then I have to bow to their greater knowledge and experience. I know it really p*sses me off when I am looking at an IT problem and I have someone who doesent really know what they're doing asking me have I checked this and that, when I know full well that it couldnt possibly cause the problem. In the end it comes down to do you trust their expertise and their integrity and until I can say for definate that they don't know what they're doing I have to trust them. We'll see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I agree with Stewart about the petrol diluting theory being absurd. Petrol does after all have a very low flash point and would simply evaporate from the oil with a hot or even warm engine. It would need to be so rich, I doubt the engine would run. For the sake of a cheap elimination, the relief valve must be the first thing to try. Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dent Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Julian I know 2 good places around home. One has an ex touring car cheif engineer. He diagnosed a broken injector in about 1 hour. I told him everything I had done, he said its either the harness feeding the ijector, or THAT injector. The other is good if a little slow. If you want more, or want to visit, I am back from Lard Land on saturday. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkey Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I have used Cooper West (Urmston, near Trafford Centre) who solved a problem I was having within 30 minutes, when other supposedly reputable engine builders/tuning shops had said the engine was knackered. Also did a great rolling road tune for me. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I think I heard recently of a Zetec with a crack in the oil pickup. This again is a cheap fix. Drop sump, inpsect, replace if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Thanks guys , I'm really hoping I won't need to take it anywhere else, but do you have the phone numbers of these other places just in case I need to. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Julian, forgot to mention. The point of my monologue about oils and viscosity was that we were happy to run engines flat out for a long time (Daytona for example)as long as the pressure never dropped below 30 psi / 2 bar. You have a big problem when there is a total lack of oil pressure. But seeing that your engine has not gone below 2.5 bar maybe all is OK. It is difficult to diagnose a problem by e-mail. Your mechanics are having a hard enough time with the thing in front of them. I know what you mean about telling people their jobs, but if you are diplomatic you should be able to get them to check the pressure release valve. Say something along the lines of "For my own peace of mind could you please look at the pressure release valve, I would be a lot happier if you looked at that as well". How can they refuse? You are the customer. They want to keep you happy (I assume). They want to see you again (holding your cheque book). This is how they make their living. They want your money, yes, but lets not be negative and think that everybody out there is trying to make a quick buck out of you. If the pressure release valve is OK then I stand by what I said earlier about big end shells. While they have the sump off check the pick up as Peter suggested. I am no expert on Zetecs but the best advice I can give is what I would do myself in your situation. Good luck. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 Julians, have you noticed the cheap Zetec on the for sale page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 For what it's worth, we used to get this low oil pressure problem with Cessna 150 & 172 aero engines (OK, flat four but the principles the same). Even with a new o/p relief valve spring fitted they would give a low reading. Answer:- Fit 1 or 2 (max) washers in the cap to increase spring pressure (effectively) so that the valve came off the seat later! It worked well & all the engines with this mod fitted went to their full TBO's (time between overhauls---- 1800 hrs).FAA/CAA agreed all OK. I also did this to a Triumph 1500 many years ago. Only thing I did was to turn eng. over for a couple of rotations with no choke to get pressure up first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted January 28, 2001 Author Share Posted January 28, 2001 Ok, got the car back yesterday. Engine now running a lot smoother because it is now mapped correctly, John Noble claim pressure is now OK at a steady 4 bar when revving hard, so maybe the rich micture had something to do with it. However I'm still noticing a drop in pressure (not as much as before) on my electrical guage, I think some of this drop is due to the crappy electrical guage. But after a hard session I get some valve/tappet rattle which dies down if you let the engine idle for a while. I guess I may be getting aerated oil, so an oil/air seperator may be worthwhile here. BTW, as for the bore wear, the engine seems fine so I'll leave it until it becomes a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted January 28, 2001 Share Posted January 28, 2001 I'm not sure because the engine sounds tappety when hot it's because the oil is aerated but if the oil is aerated it could be because there's too much oil in there and the crank is wacking into it and throthing it up. Check the dipstick. I suspect an oil/air seperator will be a waste of money. I think I'd like to ask what oil JN refilled with I think I know what you're going to say. I'm glad to hear your problem seems to have been alleviated but I'm still highly dubious of the petrol in the oil theory. Edited by - stewartg on 28 Jan 2001 20:25:51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted January 29, 2001 Author Share Posted January 29, 2001 Mobil 1 ow-40, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Well I run mobil one in mine with no problems. As for there being too much oil in it ? I know what you mean but when I've over filled mine any excess has just blown out into the catch tank. The only time I've had a tappety noise was when there is not enough oil. 1/2 a litre of mobil 1 fixed it ? With a Raceline sump it takes allmost 6 L of oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Yes I would have put money on Mobil 1. I've come to the conclusion that if the engine is not in the first flush of youth then Mobil 1 0w40 is too thin. Both SBD and QED told me not to use Mobil 1 in a VX. You could try Mobil 1 15w50 but remember as it's thicker and needs a good warming through this time of year. It's also extortionately expensive. Try a good synthetic 5 or 10w40 from Comma or Valvoline or 10w40 Magnetec. Edited by - stewartg on 29 Jan 2001 21:00:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 Julian Your engine will sound tappety if the pressure relief valve is cutting in early..... Go sepnd £1 on a new spring.... Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 I assume AW says this because the Zetec has hydraulic tappets which if they're anything like the Vx need about 4 bar to work properly at high revs. I don't even know if a Zetec uses hydraulic tappets does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Yes the Zetec does use hydraulic tappets of a design quite similar to the Vx hence the need for a fairly high oil pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 The Zetec tappets need a thin oil to work properly. Ford recommend a somethingW-30, Halfords starting producing a somethingW-30 oil specifically because of the Zetec requirement. Given that this is true there's no way Mobil1 0W-40 could be too thin for a Zetec. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Yes! Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Spoke to James Whiting today he reckons that Mobil 1 is too thin for a Zetec or anything else for that matter in a Seven. This is also QED's opinion, it's not my idea I just happen to agree with it. He also told me that he'd had a few Zetec oil pressure relief valve problems and that on a 2 litre pre 98 motor said item was under an Allen key type cap inside the sump near the front, screwing up vertically into the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 Comma Synergie 5w40 is my suggestion/choice here. Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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