grumpy the 7th Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Thanks to all who replied last time $64000 question...... after measuring with the 'string method' (plumb line & measure to edge of rim) I've got three set of measurements after rolling the car back & forth three times - all about there or therabouts!! - Near side = average of 7.5mm wider at the bottom Off side = average of 9mm wider at the bottom. (bearing in mind that it's this side with the 'play' I suppose it's bound to be a bit wider as the top falls inwards)????? SO!!! if I replace the off side & get it to something like 7.5mm (+/- a turn)?? WILL THAT DO ???????? - don't know what the angle is but it's about 355 mm diameter just inside the rim lip..... WILL I HAVE TO 'FIGHT' THE UPPER & LOWER WISHBONES APART + ROLL BAR (or will it go with normal persuasion & a bit of grunt + a shilling in the swear box????) I used to tackle anything - but now I like to ask before I break it!!!!!!!! me again rog C7 TNT (it's dynamite) - North of Watford & South of Leeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony C Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I hate to "Rain on your parade", but if you don't have the car on a level surface your measurements don't mean too much BRG SV 😬 aka Bug Killer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hi Roger What you need to do is use a bit of trigonometry. What I did was get a bit of wood put 2 screws in the edge screwed in to equal lengths. These are offered up to the rim edges and need to be screwed in to suit the wheel size. The piece of wood then can be longer that the wheel height making your measurements more accurate. This edge needs to be straight and the wood say 100 + mm wide. Then very accurately mark a point of measured distance say 1000 to 1200 mm. The using a set square draw a line 90 degrees to the straight edge of the wood So get yourself a set of trig tables and work out using the sine rule of opposite divided by adjacent work out the opposite length for the measured length that's the adjacent for chosen angles. Use 1, 1.5 and 2 degrees and then mark these length accurately in the 90 degree line you have drawn to the measured length. Put a small panel nail in the top mark a line parallel to the edge with the screws in. Its important that its dead centre on the measured parallel line. Mark lines from the centre of the top nail plus a few sub divisions. Then tie a thin piece of thread to this nail with a bob on the end and measure the angle after offering it to the wheel rim. You need to use a builders level to make sure the woods vertical. As Tony C said the floor need to be level find or rather packed with a bit of thin tin or alli under the wheels that you have measured with some straight wood and a big spirit level. In my case I found 4 points where the difference was near nothing. lucky me and marked them on the garage floor How's that its what I did and getting it checked at a garage it was just a few seconds out. Best of luck ..... realy all about you floor level and being accurate. If the floor levels that far out forget it. 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe 90 Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 7.5mm in 355mm is 1.2 degrees according to my trig. Is that what you're aiming at? There is a bit of a fight caused by the roll bar, but assuming the chassis is on stands, you can jack up the other side and the roll bar will help to pull the ball joint free. The main problem tends to be that the ball joint taper is stuck tight, and getting the breaker in can be a real b@*#er. See if you can borrow as many types of breaker as possible, as one of them is likely to fit. Crash team to the Upgradeitis ward, the withdrawal symptons are getting worse ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 FWIW I do not use a joint breaker. You either cannot get it onto the joint or if you do it tears the rubber gaiter (which is not available as a spare) If you source a lenght (12") of solid bar (size not critical but 3/4" - 1 " dia)and a solid builders lump hammer you can easily shock the joint apart without tearing the gaiter. Jack the car, undo the nut but do not fully remove it, place one end of the solid bar against the upright (where the taper goes through) and firmly clout the other end of the bar. The secret is in having the confidence to really let fly with the lump hammer. I know that this sounds brutal but in practice it is a straightforward and painless exercise ( unless you miss with the hammer !) . An assistant pulling/pushing on the wishbones sometimes helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Hi ECR Think that method rather depend on how long the 2 parts have been together. I tried it and failed. In fact the splitter last time took ages. Think that = care not to split the gaiter. The "for mini's" one seems to work well with a bit of thinning on the bang between the ball bit and the track rod end and you need to shorten the bolt on the splitter. Well on mine I needed to do so An assistant pulling/pushing on the wishbones sometimes helps Ah the long suffering and lovely Barbara. 'Can you hear me running' ......... OH YES and its music to my ears 😬 😬 😬 1988 200 bhp, 146 ft lbs, 1700cc Cosworth BD? on Weber's with Brooklands and Clamshell wings, Freestyle Motorsport suspension. Edited by - bilbo on 11 Jun 2003 19:48:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Smith Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Just to contradict the above, the gaiters can be got as spares from Redline. But also just to repeat my earlier post, you don't need to pop the the top ball joint to adjust camber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECR Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Nice to know that Foxy (however I do not now use them having modified to spherical joints last year)I tried Caterham for them with no joy and even went to QH (the manufacturer) with no better result. Glad to see a stupid policy has been changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 yup - 30p from redline or 8 quid for a new balljoint from caterham... Foxy - how do you change the camber without popping the balljoint 🤔 by removing the wishbone at the other end and twiddling that 🤔 HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxy Smith Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Hoopy, What you need to do is remove the brake calipers , two bolts, but keep the pipework intact. Release the hub carrier/upright whatever you call it from the bottom wishbone, single nut. If you back off the locknut one the top ball joint you can now wind the whole thing in or out to adjust your camber without having to pop that taper joint. By the way I don't take credit for thinking this one out it's a Peter Carmichal idea. There also was a neat adjustable joint that I think Blackbird motorsport developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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