Simon Horan Posted January 21, 2001 Share Posted January 21, 2001 Santa delivered my dream on 25/12. 200 miles later I need to mop up the pool of engine blood off the garage floor, and change the sump that has sprung a leak from an already brazed repair. My mechanicaal knowedge is basic and I'm glad the weather is crap so I can get this sorted. There must be an easy way to do this, having browsed through the Blat. All input gladly received. 1600xf Cheers. mmmmmmmmm zetec ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Hi Simon Sorry to hear about your damaged sump. It is quite easy to drop the sump on the X/Flow whilst the engine is still in the car. Just put the car on high axle stands, remove the starter motor and use (ideally) a 1/4" or 3/8" drive socket set to remove all the sump bolts and it should then come off although it might need a bit of careful prising to break the gasket seal. Out of interest, James Whiting does a cast alloy sump if you want to get flash! Have you checked the ride height on the car, I know of several Sevens which seem to be a good deal lower than Caterham recommend and thus suffer more sump damage than they should. Also when re-fitting the sump be careful not to overtighten the bolts as it just compresses the cork gasket and squeezes it out of the mating surfaces. You should be able to complete the job in a couple of hours tops. Hope this helps, good luck. Brent thumbsup.gif PS If you are unsure about doing the work and need a workshop manual, try visiting your local library they should have a manual for Escort Mexico Mk 2, Cortina Mk 2 or similar which used the 1600 Xf. Edited by - brent chiswick on 22 Jan 2001 16:33:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Simon - IMHO the James Whiting shallow alloy sump is an absolute necessity, especially if you are running 13" wheels. You'll soon tire of fixing the standard one, it gets to be a real pain, especially in the middle of France! It's the best alternative to going fully dry-sumped. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanteam Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Check out the thread in For Sale - Alloy shallow wet sump for Crossflow or BDA. This is an initiative to get the alloy sumps direct from the manufacturer, as James does not appear to stock them. Maybe a bit late for you Simon as you have a replacement. The job is relatively easy as explained above, apart from the drips of oil.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Horan Posted January 23, 2001 Author Share Posted January 23, 2001 Thanks for info guys. I've had a look underneath and got almost all the bolts out. Are there any hidden behind bellhousing before I start easing it off ? Methinks ride height is ok (although will check with mate at Eibach). I'm just mega wazzed off at not being able to get into my toy. Will get manual, will save lots on e-mails I guess. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 You should be able to get at all of the bolts unless you have the sandwich plate (dust and crap protector) between the bell housing and block. To remove this you have to remove the bell housing bolts and ease the engine away from the box sufficiently to remove the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number Six Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 John E - that's the problem I ran into and it is a real pain... not something you want to have to do regularly, hence the alloy sump. What I had to do in france was lay up some lass fibre/resin all around the hole in the sump to get me home... probably the messiest job I've ever done because oil was seeping into the resin... it got me home, just, but left a big puddle on the Ferry. I guess it would be possible to fit a skid plate/sump protector but that's not really the way to go. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 If your X/Flow is Caterham supplied the sandwich plate should be split so the bottom half comes off when you remove the 2 lower bolts into the bellhousing. I assumed they were all like this but maybe not. You will need to remove this to get at the 2 rearmost bolts holding the sump on, otherwise it will be an engine /gearbox split, to slide the engine forward sufficiently to gain access I'm afraid. If your plate isn't split it is a good idea to modify it as shown in the Caterham build manual but can only be done with the engine out. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 You may well find that you need to undo the oil pump pickup pipe to get the sump off..I had to on my 1700SS. I am not sure exactly what size nut it is, but it is large. I needed to remove it as the pickup pipe goes through a baffle plate in the sump, and the gauze filter on the end would not allow the sump to be removed. It is still a fairly easy job. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Horan Posted January 24, 2001 Author Share Posted January 24, 2001 Cheers again, you guys are a great font of knowledge, only prob is I'm in the smoke and 7 is at home - wont get to it till w/e. So, if engine gearbox split, is there enough movement on the engine mounts without using hoist and is there a wrong way to re-join, cos if there is, I'll find it !! Wwill let you know how I get on. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Simon, there is enough room to slide the engine forward if you need to and you won't have to move it much anyway, just enough to release the sandwich plate (if it isn't split). You will need to support the back of the engine though so as not to strain the spigot shaft in the clutch centre disc. Rest assured it's easier than it might sound! Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 If there is not enough movement on the engine, it is fairly simple to free the gearbox to move it an the bell housing back about 12 inches (enough to change the clutch). Start at the back of the car and undo the prop shaft, undo the 2 gearbox bolts (easier done after taking the carpet off the transmission tunnel and removing the large access panel). Once the engine bolts are undone the grearbox can be shifted back. This should let you get the sandwich plate out of the car if it isn't split. If it is split - no problem. When fitting the new sump use a sticky gasket compound (Hypomylar Blue?) especially when fitting the end pieces. this should hold them in place while you position the sump and get the first bolts in. Care needs to be taken not to knock gasket in the bell housing when positioning the sump - because you can't see if its moved, only that it leaks once the oil is back in. Good luck, Dave H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Before moving the gearbox you'll need to disconnect the gear lever as well. Feel free to give me a call - I hate to think how often I've replaced my sump... which now has a lump of steel plate welded to the bottom of it to stop it grinding through. Dave H West Sussex AO Edited by - Dave H on 25 Jan 2001 14:02:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Horan Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Cheers again - this work thing really does get in the way of the weekends, will apply all knowledge on Sat. If I'm this frantic about not being able to spend time with beloved (7, not bread knife) in the winter, I dread to think what the summer is going to be like. Roll-on warmth. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigler Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Simon, I'm the one who initiated the recent special order of 10 of the James Whiting shallow alloy sumps, those described above. It looks as though one of the subscribers has canceled his sump reservation. If you want to claim it, let me know ASAP. In the meantime, why not weld on a bash plate? Good luck! John jbigler@sprintmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Horan Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 John, I saw the thread on sumps. 1. I was too scared to ask about what was what as it was the first time I browsed. 2. I couldnt figure out what currency was involved as when I viewed the thread all sorts of symbols were in front of the amount 3. My wife bought the car as a surprise Christmas present, the last thing I really wanted to do was to be forking big wonga (just a figure of speech Alex, no offence intended) out almost before I'd used a tank of petrol, so will pursue removal, repair and bash plate as first stop. Prudent move for the future I feel. 4. Caterham quoted me 93.44 quid plus VAT, and I'm not in the know enough to be able to make a good judgement call. Still, if alloy is the way forward, please could you clarify cost in ukp. Cheers Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigler Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I'm sorry about the confusing symbols. Price is 142 UK Pounds plus VAT for the sump and 30 UK Pounds plus VAT for the specially made oil pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Simon, What a woman, that's some surprise Christmas present. Your wife doesn't have a sister does she? Brentsmile.gif biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Horan Posted January 26, 2001 Author Share Posted January 26, 2001 Brent As a matter of fact she does, but lets just say dont go there !! Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Horan Posted January 26, 2001 Author Share Posted January 26, 2001 John Thanks for clearing up cost query. I'm going to go down the repair / beef it up route first, The greatest amount of damage looks like it was done ages ago, I know I wont be throwing it around for a while, just getting used to handling on road etc. Plan Curborough as first attempt against clock with me as owner, not mate from village which is where it came from (upgrade to vx) which is ages away. If plans change, I will definately give you a shout, of course you may well not be able to help, but that is the risk I take. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Dave H. Why didn't you just fit the wheely bin castors to the sump like you said ? Was it 'cos the tax would have been higher on a six wheeler ?!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted January 29, 2001 Share Posted January 29, 2001 I'm not having wheely bin bits fitted - Steve Winterberg would drive into it teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Horan Posted January 31, 2001 Author Share Posted January 31, 2001 Completed removal of sump on saturday, no probs as the sandwich plate was split as advised. The offending item is now in surgery, I am not yet sure whether its condition is fatal. Thanks to all for the complete advice over a seemingly trivial request for info. Incidentally, if I do need new one, where would be best place to source ? Thanks again Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Mupferit Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 As said before, personaly I would definitely go for the James Whiting alloy sump if you can. Failing that you can get a modified steel sump from Caterham themselves. Glad the advice was useful Cheers Brent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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