Gary-Cornwall Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 I've come to the conclusion that dry sumping is the way forward for my XE before it goes back in (having bores re-sleeved following probs with oil pressure). I've looked at the SBD kit which looks pretty good but it's just over 1k for all the bits including VAT. Having trawled the archives I know that Arnies historic problems are well documented but assume that the system is much improved since then. What are the alternatives to the SBD system and can anyone give any comments/advice on going down this route. Any advice much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Sent you an email about my experiences. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 The Caterham sump pan and scavenge pump with internal pressure pump and external cross-flow type tank works well. This can be fitted without taking the engine out and allows a bigger resevoir than the bell-housing tank. The existing internal pressure pump still works if the belt fails. I managed to aquire the bits secondhand on blatchat and all in it cost less than £500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Hey Steve, Can you pelse send the same email to me Would be excellent ❗ Cheers Fred at fredl111@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary-Cornwall Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 Steve, thanks for the info - very useful. Stewart, thanks - I'd jump at a second hand set up but nothing around at the mo'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary-Cornwall Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Further to my original post, I have been quoted 6-700 quid by QED. Some of the saving is in not using the fancy braided hoses which I'm not bothered about as long as the others do the job. Anyone else using the QED set up got any advice? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 As said I use their pan. The pump will be by Pace and same a Caterham's. The fitting kit is good. I made a point of not using braided hose as I like to monitor the condition of the hoses... I can see a reason for braiding brake hoses for expansion avoidance but not low pressure oil stuff (probably heavier too!). Even fuel injection hose does not need to be braided. The stuff I use is good for 25 bar according to Goodridge. For some looks are more important than £££'s or speed. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Steve - do you use the QED pan with a pace slim-jim type pump on the inlet side? What tank do you use? The Bellhousing version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 He Aves, I use the internal pump. There is an 'O' ring seal arrangement that lets you offer up the pan and make the seal between the feed pipe and the oil pump intake. I used a local RaceFactors tank mounted in the shortened pass footwell. Kept the cost down and didn't require the engine out to fit. Pics of it are on my site under more 7 stuff and race mods. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Guys, popped in to see Pace recently and watched them making up XE kit. It is a work of art. The costs are not as high as 1K for the basic kit although I appreciate you need remote filter (they are availabel s/h) and tank. Agree with Steve on hoses I have gone for new Pace shallow std pan ( difference to SBD is minor ) and I understand the design for the Pace one is recognised as reliable. Having looked at a couple the fitting is going to be interesting as it is very adjacent to chassis rails - ho-hum... Anthony No engine, but 4 wheels, gearbox, diff, tank, loom, dash and now Nitrons...and a trial fitted block ( hurray !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 My car uses the Slim Jim pump and I do not think it is a very good design. Unless all 4 bolts securing the multi stages together are equally torqued the pump can screw and the steel pump gears then shred aluminium from the pump housing into the oil system. Its impossible to fix the pump if you are going to use a rear support without loosening one of the 4 bolts to get the rear braket on. Additionally, the pipe angles are such that the unions are very difficult to tighten or release when the engien and pump are in the car. This make removing the engine a formidably messy task. I had to have my chassis modified to make this work better. Worse still is the front cover for the engine which is an old SBD design. It is the combination of the poor design of these parts which led to Dick Hulbert completely incorrectly assembling the lubrication system on my car which led to a catestrophic engine failure shortly afterwards. IMO the best oil system for a VX is the Caterham system, except for the addition of a Swindon steel pump gear in the pressure pump. Nobody makes a better dry sump pan for the Caterham Vauxhall than the Titan one Caterham sell themselves. For a start its the only one deisgned specifically for a longitudinal engine position. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephaneM Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 Hello Arnie, Yes, but the price is really not the same...I had a quote from SBD at 692£ (without VAT) for the complete system + 120£ for the tank, & on the Caterham website, price is 1700£ (I hope that it is for system + tank). I'm not used to make compromise when it's a matter of reliability or performance, but here... so do you think (& others opinions welcome 😬 ) that it's worth spending 900£ more to get the Caterham one? thanks in advance. Stephane in France '95 injected VX, modifications in progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted May 17, 2003 Share Posted May 17, 2003 An engine rebuild costs much more than £900!!! Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickD Posted May 18, 2003 Share Posted May 18, 2003 Another point to note is that the Caterham sump has fins which taper down from the front to the bottom of the bellhousing at the rear. These serve as a ramp to lift the engine/car over bumps in the road should you be unlucky enough to ground the sump on one. Many of the alternative sumps are level, with a sharp vertical step at the bellhousing which can catch on any bump - a very real risk given the low ground clearance of most sevens. The rear of the Caterham sump also bolts on to the bottom of the bellhousing, making the whole engine/gearbox assembly more rigid. The Caterham pump and sump can be used with an external oil tank if you don't wish to replace your existing bellhousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephaneM Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Very interesting new input for me... but regarding the oil tank, do you mean that there is a special bellhousing wich includes an oil tank? If yes, wich part is it? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I reply to every thread Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Errrrrrrrr yes................The standard Caterham setup has the oil tank in the bell housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 With the Caterham setup you need a hydraulic clutch. Anything goes wrong with that then its an engine out jobbie. There were problems with the seal on the hydraulic clutch that caused problems. This has long since been fixed I believe. The Caterham one doesn't take that much oil, but did the racers ok. It's an expensive option though and an engine out job. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I've got an SBD dry sump system and it works very well, been on the car for years now without any problems at all. The front cover is very neat and very easy to fit, can't understand how anyone could fit it wrongly (but that arguments been had many times so we'd best not go there again). The pump works fine, never had any problem with the rotor touching the casing in 8 years and 7 removals and refttings. The steady bar at the back is a bit crude but you can easily knock up something more elegant if you feel the need. I havn't and it's fine. The pressure out connection is tight around the engine mount but you just make up a right angle adaptor to take the flexible pipe connection away from the mount, parts are included in the kit from SBD, this has probably evolved since Arnie bought his kit. The suction in connection is tight to the chassis if you run the pipe around the front of the engine. But you can do it with a 135 deg aeroquip fitting (seen the price of them!!!). If you run the pipes round the back of the engine then there's oodles of room. The sump pan design from SBD has also evolved several times, it started off using the standard windage plate and two gaskets. Then when I trasheed that on sleeping policeman I changed to the newer design with integral windage plate that uses one standard gasket. Finally last year the mkIII design has integral windage plate and bolts direct to the block with a seal groove to take a long length of o ring material for the seal, very neat, very low profile, lovely bit of kit. Tha back of the SBD sump has fins to lift the car over the bellhousing but they're not full length. If you run a small flywheel and cut away bellhousing they're designed to be easily milled off for extra ground clearance. I'm very pleased with the SBD kit, may not be the cheapest, but very well designed and made (mostly by Pace....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Wallace Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I have the SBD/PACE dry sump setup on my car. It seems fine but I must say the pump drive belt looks a bit vunerable to me. I could do with an early warning system to tell me if the belts about to come off or break, any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 I have a half undertray and change the belt every season. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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