Fred68 Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Hi There, Have a 2L VX that I sometimes drive on track day. Last time I had noisy tappet after drive reasonably fast on track (I wasn't 100%). I can't afford a dry sump kit so I thougth about fitting an Appolo. Did someone do that on VX motor? Does it work, does it stop the motor having noisy tappet after using it on track? What kind of kit did you use then? Cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Flatters Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Fred, I had exactly the same problem last year. Four or five hot laps and the thing sounded like a bag of spanners ❗ The problem is oil surge. The oil draining down into the sump is (a) thrown to the side, despite the foam baffle and (b) slow to make its way back through the baffle to the pick-up pipe, Result is that there is not always enough oil to pick up and if you have any marginal hydraulic lifters, they will drain (especially when it's hot). This in itself is not a catastrophic problem, but you shouldn't really continue to drive until they have refilled because the cam lobes will take a bit of a battering. The main problem here is that you are seeing a symptom of oil starvation to various parts of the engine, and this IS serious. When I stripped my engine this winter, the main bearings were fine but the big-ends definitely showed signs of oil starvation in that there were slight drag marks on all 4 sets of shells. The only real solution to this problem is to dry-sump the engine. I also replaced the hydraulic lifters with the solid shimmed type, but this was belt and braces. The main issue here is oil supply. I honestly don't know whether you can fit an Apollo tank to a VX or whether it would help. Sorry this post is a bit gloomy, but I do know exactly how you feel. If you want to chat about this at all, please feel free to mail me off-line or call (work hours) 020 8642 0162. *arrowright*Harry Flatters *arrowright* AKA Steve Mell of Su77on Se7ens and Joint AO - Surrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 Thanks Harry, I will call you Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 It can also be aeration of the oil. Adding more oil to the wet sump causes more windage and heat and the problem doesn't go away. I DS's and since then it's be brilliant. An Apollo would work in aeration but not in oil surge as you will be sucking air the same. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Aeriation is also avoided by using a higher viscosity oil. It is recognised however that running te oil at aorudn 5mm above the full mark on the dipstick is a good compromise. Also dont use a 0/40 oil - its too thin at higher temps. A 5/40 workes better or Mobil 1 MS at 15/50 is the best. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Edited by - fat arnie on 9 May 2003 16:16:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 Hi guys, Thanks for your replies. My car is worying me, it's making quite lots of "klick klick" coming from the hydraulic lifters. This is making me nuts, I can't drive the car. I already fitted a new foam and I use 15W50 from Motul Motorsport. If the only possibility is dry sumping I will sell the car and buy a new one! Cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Fred, You can convert the hydraulic lifters to solid by fitting inserts. Swindon Racing Engines sell such items for around £64 to convert the tappet and £95 for the inserts. All prices plus VAT and your problems go away! Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM website See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 So if I read you all carefully the only real solution and reliable one is to dry sump the motor and convert hydraulic to solid lifters. Now if I do that I will be able to track day the damn thing, right? 😬 So now my question: I don't really like the Caterham oil tank into the belhousing. I would like an external oil Tank. What should I fit then? I would need a pump, sump pan, tank and all the bits and parts to order, can someone help me ordering the right things? *confused* Cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss_Tony Posted May 9, 2003 Share Posted May 9, 2003 Arnie There is a much cheaper way, ie almost free, of converting hydraulic lifters to solids. All that is needed is some shims.For some reason I seem to think the valve spring caps are different to acomadate the shim. Not entirely sure as I usually change them to steel or titanium ones. The only down side is that a change of cams is required as hydraulic profiles are different to solid ones. Fred Harry Arnie and myself all use a seperate dry sump tank and all are different! If you check some photos out it may give you a few ideas. James Su77on Se7ens Up to my neck in K-series and Duratec engines! Edited by - james on 9 May 2003 23:28:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted May 9, 2003 Author Share Posted May 9, 2003 Hi James, Thanks but where can I find detailed pictures 🤔 Cheers Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Salmon Posted May 10, 2003 Share Posted May 10, 2003 Fred, Had exactley this prblem on my VX wet sump. Using Mobil 1 15/50 helped but fitted an Apollo plus a remote filter via a sandwich plate. The problem IMHO is caused byn airation of the oil as the shallow sump carries the oil much higher in the engine than the standard VX Astra installation. The rattly tappets after a high speed run is now a thing of the past. I also fitted a one way valve in the bleed from the top of the tank to the cam cover to stop drain back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted May 10, 2003 Author Share Posted May 10, 2003 Hi John, Great news, so it works with an Apollo and some modifications. Can you email me more details please Like wich part you bought, where, and some picture if you have. I thought about fitting an Appolo on the car a couple of week ago but everyone kept telling me that this was only for the K Rover motor...and I kept asking why not fitting it on the VX? No one really anwswered me. Cheers Fred (fredl111@yahoo.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Fred, Is it making the tappet noise all the time now? Even when cooled down and started up. If it is then a tappet could have become compressed by the lack of pure oil and running a fair while. This happened to my engine before I bought the car. It's not the end of the world. I insisted on the seller replacing all the hydraulic tappets on cyl no 1 and the problem was fixed. It's more of a hard hammering at all revs though rather than click, click... On the road the Apollo solution might work but most do not seem to need an Apollo tank for this type of work so why should your motor. On the track and with sticky tyres the only reason you might need an Apollo tank is cos the wet sump is not doing it's job properly and it will help no doubt. BUT as said you may still get surge with an Apollo tank but with less aerated oil - Still no good IMO. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Edited by - stevefoster on 11 May 2003 08:01:53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred68 Posted May 12, 2003 Author Share Posted May 12, 2003 Thanks Steve for the detailed answer, It is now making the tappet noise all the time, even when cooled down and started up, yes exactly! My question would be WHY did I have this tappet noise because I wasn't using the car for race, only fast road and tourism! Still notsure about the apollo, by the way is Appolo the same as Acusump? because I have heard about electrical acusump that would be good for avoiding oil surge, know this?? Cheers, Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevefoster Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Aha, so I suspect a decompressed or depressed tappet. I asked the same question before I bought my car of some good engine tuners. The answer was "some just do, It could be a faulty tappet from the beginning". Mine have been fine since 2000. Touches wood... Are you using Comma SynerG? They dont like Mobil 0-40, or Magnatec that is for sure. My racing pics, 7 DIY, race prep. Updated often here Photo's of the year here Hants (North) and Berkshire Area club site here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 It seems these engines need a thin oil for quick lubrication on start up to fill the hydraulic tappets and stop them rattling and a thickish oil for good oil pressure when hot. I'm not sure how much we should worry about absolute oil pressure readings as, firstly the standard gauges seem to all give diferent values and secondly higher pressures often mean low oil flow which can't be good. Something like Mobil 1 0W40 is no good as it's too thin. Something like Mobil 1 15W40 is no good as it's too thick to get to the hydraulic tappets until the engine warms up. Apart from the obvious solution of fitting solid lifters to enable the use of thicker oil the other possibility may be to try 5 or 10W50 oil Valvoline Synpower 5W50 might give the best of both worlds. Has anyone tried this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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