R500K engine health Advice please

[finmac]

Hi guys, looking for some expert advice as to likely engine health from the following readings: 

Compression and Leakdown

No 1 - 172 and 11%

No 2 - 194 and 5 %

No 3 - 181 and 5%

No 4 - 156 and 12%
 

Oil pressure V revs:

Idle - 28psi

2K - 64 psi

3K - 69 psi

4K - 72psi 

Engine has done around 6K from new and never been rebuilt/refreshed

thanks

 

Fin

[simon_h]

Hot or cold compression and leakage tests? Throttle fully open on compression tests?

Leakages don’t look too bad to me. Compression is a bit off on no4 obviously. I’d rerun it hot with fully open throttles and see what it comes out at 

[finmac]

Thanks for the input. It’s a car I’m thinking of purchasing, so re doing it isn’t going to happen very easily! Being an R500K it’s a bit of a lottery as to where it is in terms of an engine  “refresh” being needed. Trying to unpick its history a little the Car seems to have had a bit of what I suspect was road use early on in its life, then some track work by second owner back about a dozen or so years ago, very little use last half a dozen years. So miles will be a mix of road and track.

Im a bit out of touch re refresh costs, suspect these vary between £2K and double that? 

Edited Saturday at 11:20 by finmac

[Miker7]

I wasn't going to post as you were looking for "Expert" advice. But as its been a little quiet.....

The numbers look high enough for this to be a silly question - was the throttle fully open when the test was done? (if not it restricts the air getting in so amount that can be compressed and makes the test meaningless).

I was under the impression 10% difference was acceptable as a general rule, i'd therefore be a little nervous about 1 and more concerned about 4. From your comments you can't repeat the test easily. If you get the chance put a little oil into the bores (approx a tea spoon or 2) prior to the test? If the compression increases then its bore wear, if it doesn't its head gasket / valves.

NB I'm no expert, i just read lots and remember about 50%.

I'd suggest you have a chat with Oilyhands / Dave Andrews.

[oilyhands]

Number 4 looks low and number 1 to a lesser extent, acid test on a hot engine with throttle fully open, no more than 10% variance between cylinders , leakdown test very much depends on gauge and piston position but there is quite a variance between cylinders. Things worth checking in addition.. follower clearances, 8 thou inlet, 10 thou exhaust, tolerance + 2 thou / -1 thou. Check coolant and oil for corruption (oil in coolant/coolant in oil). Hydrocarbon test on coolant to see if the head gasket is leeching across the fire ring, check plugs to see if they have excessive carbon build up (indicative of oil burning). Other than that, all fingers crossed.

Rebuild costs are likely to start around £3K for a ground up detailed rebuild.

Oily

[Wrightpayne]

£3k seems eminently reasonable Vs £12k for a 996 engine albeit there are 2 extra cylinders! 

[Ainsley]

Budget for a refresh, buy it with that in mind.  Then once you own it, get it properly checked.

Ask for a discount toward the possibility of a refresh if you cant fully check it before purchase.  Its a buyers market.

 

[anthony1956]

My two refreshes cost 4k in about 2021 (Dave at Boss Racing) and 6k at Minister (Kevin, great job now in charge of engines at CC, pricing by Graham....)  in about 2009.

Edited Monday at 19:05 by anthony1956

[anthony1956]

just thinking, when I bought mine it had had a whole series of upgrades (fixes i m o) because the owner owned a CC Motorsport agent; (Hyperion) something makes me think this car hasn't had any? @oilyhands will know what they were? All that is now a long time ago, twenty years plus.

The Minister "rule" was 8,000 track miles or 24,000 road miles for refresh. Mine was done at 24,000 and 48,000. I bought it with 1800 track only miles; turned out max r p m seen by the e c u was 12,000! 🙂

@oilyhands of this parish set my cam timing up for the following Two Steves rolling road session. .. around 2010 Andrew 14 years ago you fitted an/my Emerald K6 for me and set the car up for that Two Steves dyno session ready for Swiss importation of the only R500K ever to get approval as far as I know.

edit: at 10 to 15 years all the engine loom connectors start to fail. Starting with the "famous purple spade" (found near the battery) and.. the list is endless and just part of the R500K never-ending story. And (my) passenger footwell gets too hot for passenger after 20 to 30 minutes (r p m related), I am reliably informed.

Strikes me an R500K with only 6k on it, regardless of engine state, is a bit of an opportunity for such a wondrous monster. 

Edited 14 hours ago by anthony1956

[finmac]

Great advice - thanks all!

[Ainsley]

So, you buying it then ?

[finmac]

Decided not to take the plunge on this particular car - quite a few reasons but the likely engine rebuild being a weighty factor. Will hold my powder dry and keep an eye on the market - no massive rush given the time of year! 

[anthony1956]

can we know the guide price involved? 

Many years ago mine was X995 MKN so if it's this one  much the same ancestry.

https://carsonline.bonhams.com/en/listings/caterham/r500-superlight/2a7ac118-1272-45f8-9681-792b2359ff73

that one looks to me like a 100% track car.. so 6k is close to the 8k refresh - and it's MB wheels are missing, anthracites with ZZR tyres.

Edited 4 hours ago by anthony1956

[finmac]

Yes there are some big gaps in MOT history etc, so as you say, a track car for sure.

Apparently the chap has the MBs and weather gear but holding them back for sale after the auction, which is a shame as really the car should at least have the proper wheels On it I’d suggest.