Sheds Moderator Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Peter - I am indeed talking about where the torque is delivered in the rev range. Max torque is no use to you if you intend to drive everywhere at 2500rpm (like my Dad) and this is where soft cams come in. As for using Vox cams in close quarters combat, mine did 155000 miles of combat on the M1 and M62. After that I got bored and sold it to my pal who failed to wear the thing out...maybe that's the best use for a soft cam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Paul, Have a chat with Stuart Taylor here They've successfully shoehorned a number of V-twins into the Phoenix. May not be viable for a sevenesque car as to get decent propshaft angles you'll end up with one cylinder sticking out the nearside behind the front wheel. I also advise you to have a look on the BEC yahoo list - populated by a bunch of 'nutters' (freindly ones ❗) who are only interested in Bike Engined Cars. A trawl through their archives will answer most of your questions straight away. Gordong, Just boxed up the wishbones - will send them out to you today 1st class. Dan Warrior 1400K 151bhp 😬 Edited by - dan j on 14 Apr 2003 14:36:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Peter 90 degree V-twins run without balance shafts and are very smooth if correctly balanced. They are not smooth at all rpm. They shake around a bit a t low rpm and then become turbine smooth at the top end if you have selected the correct balance factor. Narrow angle twins like the 60 degree Aprilia run balance shafts. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 There is a new V-twin from KTM, one of the smallest and lightest on the market and can make about 180bhp, if i can find the finance i surely try one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 What about a Ducati engine? These ought to be able to put out fairly serious power? Though you might not be able to start it on wet days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforated Paul Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 Dino, I could'nt afford a Ducati engine if I tried mate, but a nice idea anyway, one I had'nt considered. Gordong, I'd be interested in taking a look at your blade car if I can. Please Email me offline and let me know when is convenient for you. Cheers. Anyone else who has offered input (including AMMO), many thanks. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforated Paul Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 AMMO, what do you think about using a Honda VTX1800 bike engine in a 7? I ask because I so value your comments. Mostly because you tend to agree with everything else I have suggested. (Please note the sarcasm) It is a liquid cooled, 6 valve, V-twin developing 95 bhp and 115 ft/lbs. Not bad for a V2 lump eh? Especially a Honda "Cruiser" engine. It's high levels of torque i'm after, 100's of bhp is not a major consideration to me really. To be honest, I don't have a 7 right now, just an old Astra, a new(er) Mitsubishi and a 1380cc fast-road tune Mini which is currently not on the road (read as "Dead"). I have hankered after a 7 for years now, but circumstances have intervened. Hopefully in the not to distant future though. Anyway, I shall leave you to ponder this, and hopefully you can come up with some strong objections to ths idea too. 😬 Please Email me offline mate. I look forward to you dismantling my dreams. ❗ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdg Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Paul, How about a GSXR1100, so beloved of streetfighting headbangers? Just put one in my Mallock Clubmans car. Here's a pic of a similar (although oil-cooled ) car. http://www.cwgsy.net/private/bugs/ I have devised a a way of using the Harley engine (should you still want to) without it's primary drive and gearbox, via a shaft to a rear mounted transaxle. Email if you want to discuss. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 How about two Ducati V-Twins on a common crank? That would give some serious power and torque! Might be a little heavy though? No idea weather it would work but I love the way a Duke sounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforated Paul Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 If I was gonna fit two engines, I'd have to try two H-D lumps, cos I think they sound better than Duke lumps. Plus, Merch make a three litre stroker engine which fits H-D chassis, so if an H-D lump will fit, so will a Merch. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdg Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I think a 100cu in Revtech would be ample... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ed Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Its unusual for me to say this, but.... If you just want torque, and not power, as you say, then why on earth are you so keen on a bike engine??? You should be thinking of a Westfield/Dax V8, or a Duratec or Vauxhall engined 7 surely? Cheers, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan J Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Yup, "Very" unusual ❗ And you mentioned V8's without commenting on weights Dan Warrior 1400K 151bhp 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_pank Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Hmm, Mr_ed - have to agree with you there - get a big rover lump from somewhere and stick it in a w*stie. What do you want to use your (potential) 7 for Paul - surely this will determine whether you want torque low-down or high-revving bhp? Charlie'n'Kermit The plan is: Clackett Lane@6.45 S5EVN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tight fart Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Hardley Daylies must be the worst possible engine you could find to go in a 7, fit only to pump ditches. at least the VTX1800 would be reliable. Whats the fetish with cruiser engines? Build a trike if thats what your into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe 90 Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Must agree, the only rational merits of an engine are weight, cost and power. Sound is important but subjective, and the only area where the H-D would score. 100,016 *biggrin*miles so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Although I agree that an H-D engine and a 7 are not an obvious combination, this kind of thing has been done before with cyclecars in the twenties and thrities - I believe John Bolster's car "Bloody Mary" was one of the fastest of the day (faster than contemporary ERA's so I imagine it would still be a bloody quick machine) and started life with 2 981cc JAP twins, before graduating to 4 JAP engines. It can't have been any taller or wider than a 7. They were probably as advanced as the H-D engines (I'm guessing) and seemed to be pretty effective. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wag Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 I understand Bloody Mary was awkward to start. If one of the engines kicked back, it broke drive chains. Bolster wrote a superb book about specials. Enthusing about the GN chassis he said the chain drive rear axle was ideal for provideing three speeds and a reverse, or four speeds for those owners who did not wish to travel backwards. Just after the war, both Ferdinand Porsche and, I think, the Fry brothers were trying to build a light fast car. The Frys had a huge advantage, they had a GN chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforated Paul Posted April 15, 2003 Author Share Posted April 15, 2003 If (and hopefully when), I build or buy a 7, I will probably go down the car engined route, but I wanted some input on the subject of bike engined cars (Specifically H-D or any big 4 stroke twin). Everyone who has replied has given me plenty to think about, so thanks. As to what car engine to use, thats another kettle of fish entirely. If I had the funds, then a V8 Dax would be first choice, or possibly a Caterham SV. More realistically though, its likely to be a Tiger Cat with a Pinto or that sort of price range. A mate of mine suggested a Mojo 2 because of the mid mounted engine. Does anyone know if an A-series lump will fit ? Cos I have a mini with a good and torquey 1380 motor, and the mini is a little past its sell by date, with the exception of the engine which has only done 500 miles since I had it built up. Seems a shame to get rid of the engine if it will fit in a 7 type car. If it wont fit a 7, I'll probably just reshell the mini anyway. Any input on the Mojo2 with a mini lump would be appreciated. Cheers all, Paulus. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Paul, This isn't a "funny" comment, but most of us round here know the square root of bugger all about any kit cars other than caterhams. The question would receive more helpful responses from the sevens list at (www.se7ens.net) or one of the general kit car forums. It is easy enough for anyone to let you know that a Jester approximates to being the ugliest wheeled vehicle to ever stalk the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforated Paul Posted April 16, 2003 Author Share Posted April 16, 2003 Peter, To be brutally honest, I dont want a Jester anyway, it looks a little too comical for my tastes. Also, thanks for the se7ens chat link. Paulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 The A series was apparently fitted to some series 2 7s. All you need is a Moggy Minor gearbox and bellhousing, off you go. You might end up cutting holes in bonnets for K&Ns and things to poke through, but that's OK. Go for it, it sounds like good fun. If I wanted to build a seven type car I'd probably go the Escort Locost route, as it is I got a readymade at a good price so I saved myself the time. OTOH you can build a Locost for less and free up the cash for another later car project. That LandRover trialler you always promised yourself. A trials bike. An old 911... Nice choices to make. Don't overlook the partbuilt - I rang up re a Caterham advertised in the paper for UKP3500 - turns out it was a Westie with 2L Fiat Twincam, running, wanted finishing, last I heard it was 2500 and falling, you could get that for next to nowt, and the laughs per pound factor is huge. I'd have bought it but one sports car is enough when you are emigrating anyway. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_the_Sparky Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 Does anyone know if a Peugeot Mi16 engine can be put into a caterham? They are all aluminium 1.8 16v turning out 160bhp stock and are very easily tunable (see www.pumaracing.co.uk for tuing info on it - and othe cars). The problem I would expect would be height as it is quite a tall engine but they are cheap, easy to get hold of and potentialy very powerful. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanB Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Yes, the MI16 can go. It's quite tall, so you may need a bonnet bulge. The major problem is getting a gearbox. I've heard that some LDV van gearboxes will fit (they used a Pug XU diesel engine with a very similar block to an MI16) but I'm not sure what the ratios are or how good the box is. There used to be a company called Flowtech who made bellhousings to mate MI16 engines with Ford Type 9 boxes but they seem to be no more. Pity, as there is definitely a market out there for a bellhousing like that - this seems a fairly common answer. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe 90 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I don't really see the point of attempting to fit a non-standard production based inline 4. By the time you've paid for a special bell housing, exhaust and wiring loom, you could have quite a decent Zetec etc. Fitting a H-D, Moto-Guzzi or two Dukes is bonkers but to be applauded. I love specials. 😬 😬 100,016 *biggrin*miles so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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