Miker7 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 My K Series is supposed to have had a Caterham upgrade to supersport engine spec. However apart from a comment in the service book on the modifications page there is no record at Caterham of this happening (Martin has just told me the cars history). Whats the easiest way of checking if this engine has had the work done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted June 17 Area Representative Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, Miker7 said: Whats the easiest way of checking if this engine has had the work done? The easiest way is by reving it to the rev limiter.... Non SS, has a rev limit of 6800rpm, and SS has a 7600 limit. However, when my car had an SS ECU with a 7600 limit, the tacho suggested the limit was closer to 8krpm (but my datalogger frequently confirmed 7600). A more complicated method of checking would be to measure the valve lift. Stock cams have 8.8mm of lift, where SS cams normally have 9.3mm of lift (but not all SS cams have had the same profile) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker7 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 Rev limit won't work for me due to non standard ECU (K Maps map) Looks like its cam cover off and measure cams unless someone has an easier option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Has it got a black cast alloy Supersport plenum on the engine and a change up light in the dash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker7 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 (edited) It doesn't have the cast alloy and i'm a wuss not reving the engine to the limiter. Although looking at the pins on the ECU yesterday I don't think the relevant pin is connected. Edited June 17 by Miker7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted June 17 Area Representative Share Posted June 17 1 hour ago, TomB said: Has it got a black cast alloy Supersport plenum on the engine and a change up light in the dash? Tom, If it already has a Kmaps map, its going to be a EU3 car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted June 17 Area Representative Share Posted June 17 2 hours ago, Miker7 said: Rev limit won't work for me due to non standard ECU (K Maps map) 'seems odd to have a Kmaps if it's supposed to have already have had the supersport upgrade. The Supersport Upgrade was simply a pair of SS cams, and the reflashed ECU. 'don't think you'd really notice much difference between an SS and a Kmaps map. If its a 1600, the main benefit of the cams comes beyond the standard 6800rpm rev limit, but the 1800 makes its power a little lower down the rev range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker7 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 Previous owner had some issues with the engine, which i think he tried to sort by having it mapped. Turned into a bad ecu which he then had swapped hence the kmaps map on the ECU. I don't know for certain if this is correct as he's passed away. I didn't realise the SS cams only had a benefit above 6800 rpm. The base roadsport is 115bhp and i thought the supersport is 135ish bhp which I imagined showing improvements from the middle of the rev range not the very top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 I’m sure Oily has posted about how to identify the cams. Perhaps check out his website DVA power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvrtastic911 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 6 hours ago, TomB said: Has it got a black cast alloy Supersport plenum on the engine and a change up light in the dash? Not sure if this helps, but I got a Roadsport with Supersport upgrade (dymo showing 143bhp). This is what plenum looks like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted June 17 Area Representative Share Posted June 17 38 minutes ago, Miker7 said: I didn't realise the SS cams only had a benefit above 6800 rpm. The benefit of the SS cams is both mid range and top end, but, to get the best out of SS cams, particularly in a 1600, you need to use revs beyond 6800 rpm (particularly with a 5 speed 'box where the rev drop between the gears is much larger than with a 6 speed 'box.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted June 17 Area Representative Share Posted June 17 'just found this photo from when I put a Piper 633 (which is very similar to an SS cam) and a standard cam side by side. The 633, on the left has more rounded lobes, and, by comparison, the standard cam on the right, has lobes that have a more pronounced point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Mike, in case you haven't spotted it, analysis of your map in the comments here. It's a remapped 1600 SuperSport ECU: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker7 Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 Thanks, I knew the ECU was a remapped supersport style map from our previous conversations - its just that with their being no record at Caterham of the upgrade, and the shift light being missing ...... its had me wondering if the note in the service record is factually correct. Managed to get an endoscope in through the oil filler and could see via a hole in the gasket one cam has what appears to be "PIPER CAM" written on it. Although the little bit of the cam i could see looked very pointy like a normal 115 cam. Will try rotating the engine in gear to get a better look at the cam before I give up and take the cam cover off to be certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker7 Posted June 20 Author Share Posted June 20 (edited) So some pictures, I'm assuming the fact the cam definitely says "PIPER CAMS" means its not a Rover item and therefore likely to be a Supersport type cam (rotated the image to make it easier to read piper cams). Any ideas on what I might have from these rather rubbish pictures (its not easy taking a picture whilst pushing the car and trying to use the endoscope)? I think they look like rounded ends ala 633 cam. (edited to add, i did rotate the first picture, it just seems to have reverted to not being rotated when i uploaded it) Edited June 20 by Miker7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted June 20 Share Posted June 20 I can't guess much from the pictures of the profiles. @oilyhands is the man! However as you say, with Piper Cams on the casting they're not stock Rover items. Genuine EU3 SuperSport cams with the half-moon sensor triggers are few and far between. My guess would be 633 spec too. But it is just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 If they are Pipers, there is a good chance that the profile number will be stamped on the back end of each cam. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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