prisoner7 Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 My 420SV is soon to be certified and I’m thinking about this - what is the current thoughts about breaking in a new engine? I read http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm and I’m wondering if this is still current? I’m using the factory recommended Motul Power 5W-50 oil. Should I replace the oil after 200, 500, 1000 miles? Should I cycle up and down the RPM for the first 200 miles? Any thoughts will be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 My standard regime is 1/3 to 2/3 throttle and 1/3 to 2/3 revs with as much variation as possible with closed throttle on deceleration as the speed is dropped. Oil change after doing this for about 500km / 300 miles. No steady throttle and as much engine braking as possible, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 (edited) Built many engines over many years and bedded in as follows. Cams bedded as per manufacturer usually around 20 mins of varying rpm. Then using a mineral running in oil with warm engine straight road 2nd gear full throttle to limit at least a dozen times lifting and coast to base rpm (circa 2000) between runs to bed the rings, then drive mixed load and rpm but using all rpm range and all throttle range for 300 miles. I prefer to bed new engines on the rollers if possible Engine oil / filter change to synthetic Edited June 17 by 7 wonders of the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Nick Bassett Posted June 17 Area Representative Share Posted June 17 There are varying approaches recommended by various people, but having had my engine rebuilt last year, I would recommend running it in for the first 500 miles on Millers Running In Oil - this allows everything to bed in properly, before switching to fully syn. For first start up, I'd remove the plugs and turn the engine over to get oil pressure up - I think this is a better start in life for the main bearings, but I'm sure others will offer a better technical explanation! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisoner7 Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 (edited) Any brand/type of oil filter that is recommended? Thank you - all of you. Edited June 17 by prisoner7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Nick Bassett Posted June 17 Area Representative Share Posted June 17 I'm not sure for the Duratec engine, but for the K series I always use a Rover genuine filter - for the cost difference, it's just not worth scrimping IMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbcollier Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 - use engine building lube on all bearing surfaces. Use cam lube on cams/lifters/rockers/followers. - what oil to break in with depends on the engine. Do not use an oil of lesser quality than the minimum specified in the manual. Using a super-duper-formulated-in-zero-gravity oil is a waste of money when breaking in. - before starting the engine for the first time, prime the oil system. This can vary from turning the engine over with the spark plugs out to using an electric pump to fill the system and prime the engine. It all depends on your oil system set up. - start the engine and immediately do your cam break-in cycle as per manufacturer’s recommendations. - bring engine up to full operating temp. - immediately change engine oil and filter. Sure, everything was immaculate when the engine was built… probably. - change the oil and filter again at 100, 500, and 1000. Follow your regular oil/filter intervals there on in. - break-in procedure varies according to build spec. The most important specs are piston clearance and piston speed. Tight engines with long strokes or high rpm capabilities need to be broken in slowly to avoid overheating and scoring the pistons. Loose engines with short strokes or low rpm limits break in faster. There are other variables such as coated pistons, piston cooling oil jets, etc. Check out the OEM recommendations for your engine, not the enthusiast’s forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Ford say: ”Avoid driving too fast during the first 1,000 mi (1,500 km). Vary your speed frequently and change up through the gears early. Do not labor the engine.” Sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldAndrewE Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 This is from Keith Calver, renown Mini engine builder. The general principles will still apply Running in.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagler Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 Had a new BMW 1100 motorcycle and dealer said I should go easy for first 1000 miles then gradually increase revs through gears and then rev it hard briefly or the bores and piston rings glaze and it will burn oil in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xflow runner Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 The first 200-300 miles are the most crucial and where the majority of the running in is done. Running in is basically bedding in the piston rings. Do the cam first, 2-3k revs for 20 minutes then soon as you can find a quiet road, in 4th gear, around 2000 revs floor it for around 10 seconds then coast for 30 seconds, engine braking. Do that around a dozen or so times. Then upto 500 miles, to be on the safe side, drive it reasonably but don't redline it, varying revs, no motorways, nice country roads. Do lots of journeys rather than just a few long drives. Don't let it idle or labour for too long. Miller's running in oil, change filters after bedding camshaft again after 100 miles, then after 500ish miles change to whatever oil you'll usually use in your engine, Magnatec or whatever. That's basically what I was told and what I've done for 2 engines now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 If you don't use a conventional running-in oil, a conventional diesel oil due to the high ZDDP works well. I used Shell Rotella T4 15w40 on my engine. Also, how hard you do the initial ring break-in can depend on the ring gap. A performance engine gap on the Duratec can be as high as 0.5mm and will be fine for hard usage soon after starting, but the Ford spec can be more variable and likely lower (no accurate ring fettling before factory install), leading to the risk of ring-bind and breakage if pushed too hard too soon, as the gap increases slightly as the rings bed in and the friction heat decreases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 OEM ring packs are made to a very good tolerance indeed these are used by some aftermarket performance piston manufacturers. Last two engines I built with OEM packs needed no fettling at all bores were at OEM tolerance too. My previous Supertech rings did need slight adjustment on the second rings though. If the rings are bedded in with "short hard burts" they will correctly bed and fully seal and thus they will increase the gap slightly, since they will then achieve full bore contact correct sealing with improved thermal performance due to increased contact area without localised polished hotshots. I saw many new peformance and race engines ruined by owners being overly gentle with prolonged running in procedures these engines never achieved there full potential on the rollers where I previously worked you'd be forgiven for thinking some were 2 strokes such was there oil usage. I'm sure 420 race teams bed there engines in the hard way will no ill effects to and these are in effect stock internals. Some suffer bore wash however that's another issue entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 22 hours ago, jbcollier said: - immediately change engine oil and filter. Sure, everything was immaculate when the engine was built… probably. - change the oil and filter again at 100, 500, and 1000. Follow your regular oil/filter intervals there on in. why that number of oil and filter changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 6 hours ago, Gridgway said: why that number of oil and filter changes? Good question. Maybe the thread title should be ‘WHAT IS THE LATEST OVERTHINKING ABOUT BREAKING IN A NEW ENGINE?’ ? 😉 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, ScottR400D said: Good question. Maybe the thread title should be ‘WHAT IS THE LATEST OVERTHINKING ABOUT BREAKING IN A NEW ENGINE?’ ? 😉 Quite. According to most of the drivers I employed, flog the ass off it from day 1. Those motors never gave a problem. The ones that were looked after…Well, you can guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker7 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Over the years I have heard both arguments for being gentle and being "robust" in the running in. I can understand the argument for being robust (full throttle, no labouring, range of revs, not red line) initially to ensure rings bed into the cylinder walls. Changing the oil frequently to get the wear out of the oil. What is the argument for being gentle? Is doing what the engine would do during it's normal life too much? Do things need to work harden or do they overheat somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) ‘Running in’ for a new car (as per this thread) covers the engine and all other mechanical assemblies. Even if being ‘robust’ helps for the engine, which is far from proven, there are other components that might not benefit from it. Most (all?) manufactures just recommend avoiding extremes for a few hundred miles to allow moving, mating components to bed in. Easy. That’s what I’ve done over decades and many new cars and never had a car that felt underpowered or used oil. It’s what I did with my R400 with similar results. It produced its stated power on Luke Stevens rolling road and I’ve never had to top up the oil between changes, even with track days. What did I do wrong? Edited June 19 by ScottR400D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 to be super picky the thread starter is specifically talking about engine. I have no specific expertise, but I've watch a few race ford engines get run in on dynos and rolling roads. The cam running in period seems very similar across them and specific, but they get to "power runs" quite quickly raising the top end revs as they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker7 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I should have been clear that I'm referring to after the cam bedding in period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just had a read of the Mintec document. He says to run the engine first time at 2k rpm without coolant. Never seen that done or heard of before. That's until the cylinder head is warm to touch, so presumably for a shortish time - maybe 5 mins or so? Maybe less. Then fill with coolant and run at 2k for 10 mins to bed in the cam lobes. I thought that doing the first 20 mins without stopping the engine was what most people seem to do for the cams. Then the running in, low loads, not too much throttle opening. no more that 60% rev limit for 500 miles. Feels like the low-stress version of the running in method to me. Nothing specific to bed in the rings. I think it's like many of these things, it doesn't really matter (eeek). I too have never had an engine that uses lots of oil because the rings haven't been bedded in properly and the Mintec dude doesn't seem to have a specific method for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR400D Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 “I think it's like many of these things, it doesn't really matter (eeek).” I think you’re right within reason. Common sense should give you the right path. I’d love to know the justification for running without water though. If there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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