Gridgway Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I borrowed my wife's electric car and had to charge it. I used the fast charging at Leigh Delamere services. So basically it cost me £38 for "half a tank" which is about 125 miles at my motorway speeds. To compare, it costs £110 to fill up the VW Toerag when on fumes to go 600 miles. So that's roughly 18p per mile on diesel versus 30p per mile for electric. Now it's not quite a fair comparison as I don't fill up with Diesel in the motorway services. But how can it be that electric is (way) more expensive than diesel. And how come noone else is moaning on about it? In other words WTF? I'll be taking my nice cheap diesel in future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 21 Leadership Team Share Posted February 21 And what is the differential when it’s charged at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 21 Member Share Posted February 21 Please can you add the cost of that charge in £/kW hr. Thanks Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Sounds like about £1 / kWh, if not a bit higher, about 11 times higher than a tariff such as the British Gas off-peak EV tariff at £0.0895 / kWh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 22 Leadership Team Share Posted February 22 Yes, at around 3.5 miles/kwh, 125 miles equates to 35-36 kWh added charge. At a cost of £38 that’s over £1/kwh. Even charging on a non-EV home tariff the cost would be around 28p/kwh, or even as low as 7.5p overnight on an EV tariff. On the standard 28p tariff that’s 8p/mile based on 3.5 miles/kwh, definitely less than diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobPot Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 And don't forget the 20% VAT on public chargers vs. 5% at home ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 22 Member Share Posted February 22 Thanks, all. RAC "Charge Watch" suggests £0.60/kWh for public fast charging. What's the best resource for checking actual prices at service stations... ZapMap? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanical Moz Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 ZapMap is the best I know of. I think it's complicated by the price structures that can exist around various subscription services offering discounts on the pence per kWh for a fixed monthly fee. I'm fortunate that in 18 months of EV ownership I've had to use public charging less than a dozen times. My car has just hit 29k miles today and the cost to fuel it in that time is pretty much exactly 3p per mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiddy7 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 It does annoy when the answer to how expensive public charging is, is 'oh you should never use a public charger' and that you should always charge at home on your special rate from your bank of solar panels. That's all very well, but over 75% of all car users in the uk will never have the ability to charge their EVs at home due to not having off street parking, or living in a flat, or living in rented property etc . So we are basically saying that if you are rich, own your own house, have nice off street parking and charging facility then running an EV is cheap, however if your poor then you have to pay 6x more per mile.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 Mrs Ridg is the expert in public charging as she's done loads more than me (that was my first time). It looks like her fav charger on the A303 is not a fast one and is 1/4 the cost. So the variety is huge based on speed and with the added "motorway premium". Also in the maths you should take account of the standing charge as well as the usage charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_h Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 38 minutes ago, Tiddy7 said: It does annoy when the answer to how expensive public charging is, is 'oh you should never use a public charger' and that you should always charge at home on your special rate from your bank of solar panels. That's all very well, but over 75% of all car users in the uk will never have the ability to charge their EVs at home due to not having off street parking, or living in a flat, or living in rented property etc . So we are basically saying that if you are rich, own your own house, have nice off street parking and charging facility then running an EV is cheap, however if your poor then you have to pay 6x more per mile.... To even the playing field for the haves and have nots with regards to charging, I think they should start charging home EV charging at 20% vat, with smart meters I'm sure it could be differentiated from normal home use somehow. They couldn't really complain about that as they still don't have to pay umpteen % of fuel duty on top like normal fuels do, although I'd expect the government to be looking into that eventually if the loss of revenue becomes too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 22 Member Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Mechanical Moz said: ZapMap is the best I know of. I think it's complicated by the price structures that can exist around various subscription services offering discounts on the pence per kWh for a fixed monthly fee. ... Thankyou ZapMap has Leigh Delamere at £0.79/kWh for 25 kW. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerobod - near CYYC Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I think the answer to street parking or in long term car parks that many will need to use, is to have a charge meter at every space that has at least a standard 3kW supply (installed in a similar manner to an old-style parking meter). This can at least use the conduit for existing street lighting to reduce infrastructure installation costs. I can see regulated rates for this type of supply being similar to home electricity rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 22 Member Share Posted February 22 17 minutes ago, simon_h said: To even the playing field for the haves and have nots with regards to charging, I think they should start charging home EV charging at 20% vat, with smart meters I'm sure it could be differentiated from normal home use somehow. They couldn't really complain about that as they still don't have to pay umpteen % of fuel duty on top like normal fuels do, although I'd expect the government to be looking into that eventually if the loss of revenue becomes too high. There are multiple conflicting objectives: accelerating the transition, raising revenue, and providing the incentives in a transport strategy... if we had one. After a reasonable start the transition has lapsed into chaos. I wouldn't like to see anything that slows it even further. Jonathan PS: That ability to charge (!) differential costs for different uses of electricity is very interesting, not just for EVs but also for local generation and storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted February 22 Member Share Posted February 22 (edited) 8 minutes ago, aerobod - near CYYC said: I think the answer to street parking or in long term car parks that many will need to use, is to have a charge meter at every space that has at least a standard 3kW supply (installed in a similar manner to an old-style parking meter). This can at least use the conduit for existing street lighting to reduce infrastructure installation costs. I can see regulated rates for this type of supply being similar to home electricity rates. Yes. There's lots of technology already available. There should be targets for local implementation and availability. One of my children has an ID.3 in east London with no ability to charge at home. I'm told that it's not a problem once you're familiar with the options/ have the accounts set up etc. Jonathan Edited February 22 by Jonathan Kay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 Differential costs are everywhere - look a the cost of bottled water versus the tap at home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 22 Leadership Team Share Posted February 22 4 hours ago, Tiddy7 said: It does annoy when the answer to how expensive public charging is, is 'oh you should never use a public charger' and that you should always charge at home on your special rate from your bank of solar panels. That's all very well, but over 75% of all car users in the uk will never have the ability to charge their EVs at home due to not having off street parking, or living in a flat, or living in rented property etc . So we are basically saying that if you are rich, own your own house, have nice off street parking and charging facility then running an EV is cheap, however if your poor then you have to pay 6x more per mile.... Nobody was suggesting that you should never use public chargers but there’s a balance to be had. In over 85,000 miles of EV driving I’ve maybe used public chargers a couple of dozen times, other than that I charge at work or home. I have no issue with paying a higher charge rate using public chargers but I don’t claim that is the real cost of charging, the real cost is a balanced average. I do accept though that some people will currently be unable to charge at home, but that situation can only improve. Where does the “over 75%” figure come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) Quote Where does the “over 75%” figure come from? He made it up on the spot just like 87% of statistics…Glad I’m considered rich owning a house with a drive. What about the 100% of people that don’t have a fuel station on their drive? Are they considered poor? In which case I’m rich and poor. I’m confused. 😕 Edited February 22 by TomB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 You were doing well until the fuel station on the drive part! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_Arundel Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Well, I`ll be dead soon and won`t have to put up with all this modern c..p! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 It's interesting as I really like driving our Cupra Born, it's quite sporty. So I thought... double benefit... sporty and cheap to run. Now I think sporty and reassuringly expensive to run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 24 Leadership Team Share Posted February 24 You need to get out of the habit of going out to seek expensive fuel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridgway Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardo Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Why is it that people always compare the costs of charging at motorway services to filling up a diesel at bargain basement supermarket forecourts? Charging at home costs me 7.5p/kWh, which works out to around 2p/mile. Even with the most efficient diesels being fuelled up at supermarket forecourts, you’re looking at around no less than 10p/mile. This doesn’t detract from the fact many rapid chargers are ludicrously expensive at around 80p/kWh. Fortunately, the Tesla superchargers average around 36p/kWh, which is far more palatable. As to how can it be that a particular trip may be more expensive in a diesel as compared to an EV? That may have something to do with all the subsidies the fossil fuel companies receive, whilst public charging receives no equivalent subsidies and has a 20% VAT rate attached to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardo Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 22/02/2024 at 14:18, Tiddy7 said: It does annoy when the answer to how expensive public charging is, is 'oh you should never use a public charger' and that you should always charge at home on your special rate from your bank of solar panels. That's all very well, but over 75% of all car users in the uk will never have the ability to charge their EVs at home due to not having off street parking, or living in a flat, or living in rented property etc . So we are basically saying that if you are rich, own your own house, have nice off street parking and charging facility then running an EV is cheap, however if your poor then you have to pay 6x more per mile.... If we look at someone that isn’t plucking numbers out of thin air, the RAC reckon around 65% of UK households have access to off-street parking. https://www.racfoundation.org/media-centre/cars-parked-23-hours-a-day Though, I do agree that the disparity between private and public charging is utterly ludicrous and definitely disadvantages a large proportion of the population. Prior to the recent energy price hikes you could find “fast” chargers for around the price of standard household electricity (though not the off-peak rates) so it wasn’t too polarising, however these days it’s all gone silly with even 7kW chargers costing considerably more than that available at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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